Sealing kickboard molding?

Posted by RicodJour on June 21, 2009, 11:03 am

> "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message

> >> "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message
> >>>> In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very tempera=

> >>>> climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
> >>>> kickboard
> >>>> molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also wi=

> >>>> organic varnish or polyurethane.
> >>>> Recommendations?
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>> Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
> >>> If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk
> >>> after its nailed up. =A0The top can always be caulked.
> >>> Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet =

rot

> >>> down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
> >>> baseboard. =A0The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the basebo=

ard.

> >>> This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold th=

> >>> spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. =A0This also affec=

> >>> the sole plate if its not PT.
> >>> --
> >>> Dave
> >> HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..Y=

> >> would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years
> >> for that to happen....

> > This is common in bathrooms, especially in older homes. =A0May be throu=

ghout

> > the house if a flood occurs, but never goes beyond baseboard height.
> > Similar in a water heater closet with a water heater burst. =A0A leaky
> > built-in dishwasher can do similar behind the dishwasher. =A0A leaky si=

> > faucet at its base can do the same. =A0Commonly, its due to a very slig=

> > gap between the baseboard and floor. =A0There is no baseboard in the la=

st 2

> > items mentioned though. =A0Water accumulates between the baseboard and =

sole

> > plate. The backside of the baseboard wicks the water and may transfer s=

ome

> > of it to the sheetrock. =A0If the house has a subfloor with plywood
> > covering, its common for that plywood to take on that water as well. =

=A0If

> > the floor is covered with carpet, water rot may attack the underlayment=

> > --
> > Dave

> That may be true Dave but what the hell does that have to do with requiri=

> the painter to seal the back side of the baseboard..With the leaks NOT
> spills you mention sealing the baseboard won't do diddly squat...You'll h=

ave

> ALOT more to be concerned about then the back side of the baseboard being
> painted...As I said the homeowner is a PITA and is full of it....But than=

> for throwing the Red Herring into the discussion...

My take as well. I ran across such customers at a very tender age.
My brother started mowing lawns and I helped him out. He agreed on a
price for mowing a lady's lawn, we finished the first time and went to
the door to collect the money, then she tells us that she wants the
lawn mowed in _both_ directions so the tire marks would make a
checkerboard pattern! Being young and stupid we did it for the same
price.

R

Posted by Dioclese on June 22, 2009, 7:10 am

> "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message

>>> "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote in message
>>>>> In a fully-insulated home in N. California SF Bay Area (very temperate
>>>>> climes) is it common to seal the back side as well as the front of
>>>>> kickboard
>>>>> molding? The owner is insisting that the back side be sealed also with
>>>>> organic varnish or polyurethane.
>>>>> Recommendations?
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Do you mean a molding as in "baseboard"?
>>>> If you don't have carpet, you can seal the bottom with silicon caulk
>>>> after its nailed up. The top can always be caulked.
>>>> Believe the idea behind using varnish or polyurethane is to keep wet
>>>> rot down if you spill something, and the spill affects the back of the
>>>> baseboard. The sheetrock doesn't touch the floor behind the baseboard.
>>>> This creates a cavity just waiting for a spill to happen, and hold that
>>>> spill for a long time until it finally dissipates. This also affects
>>>> the sole plate if its not PT.
>>>> --
>>>> Dave
>>> HUH ??? That's quite a spill if it rots out the floor and baseboard..You
>>> would have to spill alot repeatedly in the SAME spot for several years
>>> for that to happen....

>> This is common in bathrooms, especially in older homes. May be
>> throughout the house if a flood occurs, but never goes beyond baseboard
>> height. Similar in a water heater closet with a water heater burst. A
>> leaky built-in dishwasher can do similar behind the dishwasher. A leaky
>> sink faucet at its base can do the same. Commonly, its due to a very
>> slight gap between the baseboard and floor. There is no baseboard in the
>> last 2 items mentioned though. Water accumulates between the baseboard
>> and sole plate. The backside of the baseboard wicks the water and may
>> transfer some of it to the sheetrock. If the house has a subfloor with
>> plywood covering, its common for that plywood to take on that water as
>> well. If the floor is covered with carpet, water rot may attack the
>> underlayment.
>> --
>> Dave

> That may be true Dave but what the hell does that have to do with
> requiring the painter to seal the back side of the baseboard..With the
> leaks NOT spills you mention sealing the baseboard won't do diddly
> squat...You'll have ALOT more to be concerned about then the back side of
> the baseboard being painted...As I said the homeowner is a PITA and is
> full of it....But thanks for throwing the Red Herring into the
> discussion...

Its an overkill that does not do anything but preserve the baseboard in
limited flooding situations. Yes, I agree that this particular homeowner is
a PITA. In the event of a limited flooding situation, the remainder I've
talked about will have to be replaced.

I was specifying the situations where said source of water logging may occur
and what it usually affects. Not defending as to why or why not the sealing
of baseboard as you are under the impression of for no apparent reason to me
And, if you think it out after reading my input, you would realize that the
homeowner is wasting his/her time by my input. Not a digression from the
discussion as you suggest, just an expanded picture of why. Same to Rico.
Both newsgroup policemen.
--
Dave

Posted by RicodJour on June 22, 2009, 9:28 am

On Jun 22, 7:10=A0am, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
> Its an overkill that does not do anything but preserve the baseboard in
> limited flooding situations. =A0Yes, I agree that this particular homeown=

er is

> a PITA. =A0In the event of a limited flooding situation, the remainder I'=

> talked about will have to be replaced.
> I was specifying the situations where said source of water logging may oc=

cur

> and what it usually affects. =A0Not defending as to why or why not the se=

aling

> of baseboard as you are under the impression of for no apparent reason to=

> And, if you think it out after reading my input, you would realize that t=

> homeowner is wasting his/her time by my input. =A0Not a digression from t=

> discussion as you suggest, just an expanded picture of why. =A0Same to Ri=

co.

> Both newsgroup policemen.

Posted by Rudy on June 22, 2009, 9:44 pm

>>Sorry, but it is a digression. The OP asked about applying a sealant to
>>some molding, not waterproofing techniques. Caulking the baseboard

is just as likely to hide problems as prevent them. If water is behind the
caulk it won't readily seep out and let you know there's a
problem (not all 'leaks' are from klutzes spilling stuff inside their
houses).<<

Sort of like he Plumbing inspector in Tucson "insisting" I caulk my 3
toilets [New Construction] to the (tile) floor (over concrete slab)
I told him that "if" the wax ring was allowing leakage, I'd rather see it
RIGHT AWAY (on top of the tile) than let it seep thru the grout over time
and get under the tile and spread out under there B4 I could find the source
of the inevitable smell. He said the rules are the rules, so I put some
silicone spray under the edge of the toilets, wiped back and did a light
ring of DAP caulking. After he left, I stripped the caulking back off.
(PS: They never did leak anyway)

Posted by Dioclese on June 26, 2009, 8:00 am

On Jun 22, 7:10 am, "Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:
> Its an overkill that does not do anything but preserve the baseboard in
> limited flooding situations. Yes, I agree that this particular homeowner
> is
> a PITA. In the event of a limited flooding situation, the remainder I've
> talked about will have to be replaced.
> I was specifying the situations where said source of water logging may
> occur
> and what it usually affects. Not defending as to why or why not the
> sealing
> of baseboard as you are under the impression of for no apparent reason to
> me
> And, if you think it out after reading my input, you would realize that
> the
> homeowner is wasting his/her time by my input. Not a digression from the
> discussion as you suggest, just an expanded picture of why. Same to Rico.
> Both newsgroup policemen.

Sorry, but it is a digression. The OP asked about applying a sealant
to some molding, not waterproofing techniques. Caulking the baseboard
is just as likely to hide problems as prevent them. If water is
behind the caulk it won't readily seep out and let you know there's a
problem (not all 'leaks' are from klutzes spilling stuff inside their
houses).

It's generally far easier to convince an owner to modify their notions
then to just forget about them. The latter results in resentment and
"this guy is taking advantage of me" feelings, which show up when the
contractor is looking to get paid, or when a neighbor asks for a
referral.

In this particular case the contractor could up-sell the owner to some
fiberglass or PVC moldings so rot would never be an issue. It's still
a waste of time and money, but it's a scenario where both parties are
more likely to be happy with the outcome.

If you provide an opinion, you can expect to get an opinion on your
opinion - especially if it is questionable. It's nothing personal,
just newsgroup 'business'.

R

-----------

Alright, absorbed.

As I said, I expanded on what happens when water gets behind the baseboard.
That in itself explains why just addressing the back of the baseboard by
itself is a waste of time. I don't feel I have to defend that portion of my
response in any shape, manner, or form.

I know the silicon caulk works here in the bathroom along the
floor/baseboard line. Hardly a defense, but I don't feel I have to defend
things that I see that work in reality vs. someone's newsgroup opinion
otherwise. Believe your opinion is "kneejerk" in this specific regard.
--
Dave

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Sealing kickboard molding? - Page 3