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Posted by Tim Mulvey on July 2, 2006, 6:13 pm
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> Responses inline...
>> S,
>> Shooting the right grade is definitely important for a builder, but how
>> do you know the grade written on the plan was right and not a mistake?
>> Over the past 15 yrs I have never seen a print that is 100% accurate. No
>> matter the architect or engineer, or if the plan was hand or CAD drawn.
>> Marson was right saying that contractors get a bad rep here. And when
>> architects make mistakes, try to get damages from them and see how far
>> you get. They will say that the contractor should have found the error. I
>> think all the facts should be clear before a judgment is made.
>> Tim
> If the problem was a mistake in the plans, the GC should have said so.
> And comparing architects mistakes with builders mistakes is comparing
> apples and oranges. Sadly, a few bad apples reflect badly on everyone.
> So, I'll give someone a good rep right now.
If a mistake were made on the part of the architect with regards to an
elevation from benchmark, e.g. T.O.F. 7.83' lower than hydrant halfway down
the block and it should have said T.O.F. 6.83' lower, it may not be noticed
right away depending on site conditions. Wall sections on the print would
show wall heights so they would be the same regardless of the benchmark.
When the builder for the O.P. saw it, he didn't try to hide it like some
might.
show/hide quoted text
> The contractor who fixed the collapsed roof where I work did a nice job.
> We're very pleased with what he did and how he did it. Problems that came
> up even 2 years later were fixed promptly, at no charge, and without
> attitude. My cousin hired him to do repairs at her townhouse a couple of
> years ago, and just hired him to remodel her place in Florida. She's
> sending him and a crew down there, from Illinois, thats how much she
> trusts him.
> And, we have a friend who custom built a house recently and their
> contractor was very reliable, dealt with some real difficult flood zone
> issues, and two years later comes to fix things as needed without any
> hassle.
> So there, two good reps. But neither of these builders did anything that
> would generate a question to this newsgroup either.
> And as for suing an architect, well, if the plaintiff can demonstrate
> damages, then he'll have to pay up. The plans for my home addition call
> for the foundation to be built a certain way, for I-beams to be used in
> certain places, etc. If my addition was built the way the plans call for
> and didn't hold up, you better believe the architect will be liable.
> So please don't whine about bad reps in this discussion. It reflects
> badly on all builders, because this isn't some guy complaing that the stud
> wood isn't furniture grade. He's building on a slope and the foundation
> wall holding back that slope and all the water that comes down it will not
> be from a single concrete form, but from some stacked workaround.
I don't think I was whining. The point I was trying to make is that this
builder seems to being judged as incompetent without knowing all the facts.
And as far as the foundation not being from a single form, foundations are
not always poured monolithic. About 6 years ago we poured 26' tall walls
for a house basement. Owner wanted a raquetball court in his basement. We
poured in 2 tiers. Proper coating, drainage, and site grading and still no
leaks. Properly pinned and reinforced, another pour on top of O.P.'s wall
should be just fine. But by all means get the fix stamped by an engineer.
Covers everyone.
Tim
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Posted by Bob Morrison on July 5, 2006, 3:04 pm
In a previous post Tim Mulvey wrote...
show/hide quoted text
> Shooting the right grade is definitely important for a builder, but how do
> you know the grade written on the plan was right and not a mistake? Over the
> past 15 yrs I have never seen a print that is 100% accurate. No matter the
> architect or engineer, or if the plan was hand or CAD drawn.
That's why they make telephones. If a contractor notices an error, then he
should pick the phone and ask a question. I've seen too many instances
where the solution could have been resolved in a 5 minute telephone
conversation, but the contractor didn't make the call. The remedy is then
to design an expensive fix to what could have been resolved simply and
easily.
show/hide quoted text
> Marson was right saying that contractors get a bad rep here.
I NEVER have a problem with contractors who ask questions. And I will
ALWAYS give credit to contractors who are conscientious and do their best
to do a good job. Mistakes happen -- even in setting the proper grade.
The question is how does the contractor approach getting the problem
resolved? If in a professional manner that makes the homeowner feel
confident in the solution, the contractor is a pro who should be
commended.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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Posted by RicodJour on July 5, 2006, 3:22 pm
Bob Morrison wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> I NEVER have a problem with contractors who ask questions. And I will
> ALWAYS give credit to contractors who are conscientious and do their best
> to do a good job. Mistakes happen -- even in setting the proper grade.
> The question is how does the contractor approach getting the problem
> resolved? If in a professional manner that makes the homeowner feel
> confident in the solution, the contractor is a pro who should be
> commended.
You're a dionsaur, Bob. ;)
PS Shame about that meteor...
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Posted by Bob Morrison on July 5, 2006, 6:02 pm
In a previous post RicodJour wrote...
show/hide quoted text
> > I NEVER have a problem with contractors who ask questions. And I will
> > ALWAYS give credit to contractors who are conscientious and do their best
> > to do a good job. Mistakes happen -- even in setting the proper grade.
> > The question is how does the contractor approach getting the problem
> > resolved? If in a professional manner that makes the homeowner feel
> > confident in the solution, the contractor is a pro who should be
> > commended.
>
> You're a dionsaur, Bob. ;)
>
Maybe so. I've been doing structural engineering for 35+ years, so I guess
that makes me an "old-timer". But, I do have a few contractors in my area
that I will recommend without hesitation. They are a pleasure to work
with. They do what they say they will do and if they don't quite
understand something or if they think I've made an error (hey it happens),
then we work out a solution BEFORE it becomes a major issue.
Rico, I suspect you could easily be included in that list. I enjoy your
repartee and have long felt that the answers you give are practical and to
the point.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
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Posted by Tim Mulvey on July 7, 2006, 7:05 am
show/hide quoted text
> In a previous post Tim Mulvey wrote...
>> Shooting the right grade is definitely important for a builder, but how
>> do
>> you know the grade written on the plan was right and not a mistake? Over
>> the
>> past 15 yrs I have never seen a print that is 100% accurate. No matter
>> the
>> architect or engineer, or if the plan was hand or CAD drawn.
> That's why they make telephones. If a contractor notices an error, then he
> should pick the phone and ask a question. I've seen too many instances
> where the solution could have been resolved in a 5 minute telephone
> conversation, but the contractor didn't make the call. The remedy is then
> to design an expensive fix to what could have been resolved simply and
> easily.
>> Marson was right saying that contractors get a bad rep here.
> I NEVER have a problem with contractors who ask questions. And I will
> ALWAYS give credit to contractors who are conscientious and do their best
> to do a good job. Mistakes happen -- even in setting the proper grade.
> The question is how does the contractor approach getting the problem
> resolved? If in a professional manner that makes the homeowner feel
> confident in the solution, the contractor is a pro who should be
> commended.
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com
Yes Bob, you are 100% right about the builder needing to make contact right
after finding a problem. Hiding and covering up problems usually makes the
situation go from bad to worse. However, it seems that this builder notified
the homeowner right away and did not try to hide the mistake by whomever.
Someone else posted this,
"This is your warning sign. Your builder messed up. He can't hide it and
he knows it. Now he's trying to get you to give him permission to take the
easy way out. This will be the first of many things he'll screw up and put
in your lap to deal with. One day, he'll be gone and you'll be stuck with
it."
The point I've been trying to make is don't hang the guy without a fair
trial. Everyone makes mistakes but it's how you deal with them that really
matters. That other poster is ready to throw the builder to the wolves for
making a mistake. They had a bad experience with a contractor, so one
mistake and you're an asshole that's going to be a thorn in their side for
the next thirty years. People like that need to have a wee bit more
information than what was posted before letting the arrows fly.
Tim
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>> S,
>> Shooting the right grade is definitely important for a builder, but how
>> do you know the grade written on the plan was right and not a mistake?
>> Over the past 15 yrs I have never seen a print that is 100% accurate. No
>> matter the architect or engineer, or if the plan was hand or CAD drawn.
>> Marson was right saying that contractors get a bad rep here. And when
>> architects make mistakes, try to get damages from them and see how far
>> you get. They will say that the contractor should have found the error. I
>> think all the facts should be clear before a judgment is made.
>> Tim
> If the problem was a mistake in the plans, the GC should have said so.
> And comparing architects mistakes with builders mistakes is comparing
> apples and oranges. Sadly, a few bad apples reflect badly on everyone.
> So, I'll give someone a good rep right now.