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Source for plywood roof sheathing with radiant barrier in SF Bay Area?

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Source for plywood roof sheathing with radiant barrier in SF Bay Area? jpl94306 07-27-2007
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Posted by on August 8, 2007, 8:01 pm
> What I know about it, its a spray on, like paint, can be spryed with airless
> equipment, as to uniform, depends on how well you can spray, like paint,
> down here in texas some insulators are also into spraying it, I want to say
> I have heard that Sherwin Williams stores have the paint, or check with the
> Florida Solar Energy Center, may can get more info from there.
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Craig.
>
> > I'm not failure with a spray-onradiantbarrier, do you know anything
> about
> > it?
> > Wonder as to how uniform it would be?
>
> > > One way I have seen it done is to have theradiantbarriersprayed in
> the
> > > attic, that is done a lot in retrofit, and seems to work pretty well,
> the
> > > plywood is still the way to go in new const though.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

All, spray on paints are, by definition of several sources, are "not"
radiant barriers. They are actually Interior Radiation Control
Coatings (IRCCs). A radiant barrier has to have a minimum of 10%
emissivity and 90% or more reflectivity (California Title 24 code is
even more stringent). There are several manufacturers of the
reflective paints, all with different reflectivities. A foil is a
"known quantitiy" by virture that the inherent properties of aluminum
foil have a 3% emissivity and 97% reflectivity. Paints are almost
always applied by a contractor just because most people do not want to
rent a spray applicator , deal with the mixing of the paint, etc.,
etc. Whereas, foils can be applied by different methodologies.
Another consideration about paints is that if the decking ever has to
be replaced due to damage, the paint goes away as well.

Regarding the San Francisco situation, concur that if you can't find
the OSB or plywood decking with the foil already adhered to it, there
are foils and other foil products that can used as underlayment.

I have a list of links to several unbiased, government and university
technical sources on my website: www.reflectafoam.com/technical.html.
If anybody needs further info or specific information, don't hesitate
to contact me.

Thanks, Donnie.


Posted by Dennis on August 9, 2007, 6:41 pm
One of the major problems with any radiant system is that the dust that
forms on its surface will degrade it reflectivity. One of the biggest
problems with radiant barriers. Oak Ridge has a good deal of info on this,
one doc I see referenced from your website "Radiation Control Fact Sheet"
found on the Oak Ridge website. It discusses how these barriers defrade over
time. Even so, people who live in the sun belt, Arizona and the like, would
benefit greatly from adding a radiant control barrier to their homes.


>> What I know about it, its a spray on, like paint, can be spryed with
>> airless
>> equipment, as to uniform, depends on how well you can spray, like paint,
>> down here in texas some insulators are also into spraying it, I want to
>> say
>> I have heard that Sherwin Williams stores have the paint, or check with
>> the
>> Florida Solar Energy Center, may can get more info from there.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi Craig.
>>
>> > I'm not failure with a spray-onradiantbarrier, do you know anything
>> about
>> > it?
>> > Wonder as to how uniform it would be?
>>
>> > > One way I have seen it done is to have theradiantbarriersprayed in
>> the
>> > > attic, that is done a lot in retrofit, and seems to work pretty well,
>> the
>> > > plywood is still the way to go in new const though.- Hide quoted
>> > > text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> All, spray on paints are, by definition of several sources, are "not"
> radiant barriers. They are actually Interior Radiation Control
> Coatings (IRCCs). A radiant barrier has to have a minimum of 10%
> emissivity and 90% or more reflectivity (California Title 24 code is
> even more stringent). There are several manufacturers of the
> reflective paints, all with different reflectivities. A foil is a
> "known quantitiy" by virture that the inherent properties of aluminum
> foil have a 3% emissivity and 97% reflectivity. Paints are almost
> always applied by a contractor just because most people do not want to
> rent a spray applicator , deal with the mixing of the paint, etc.,
> etc. Whereas, foils can be applied by different methodologies.
> Another consideration about paints is that if the decking ever has to
> be replaced due to damage, the paint goes away as well.
>
> Regarding the San Francisco situation, concur that if you can't find
> the OSB or plywood decking with the foil already adhered to it, there
> are foils and other foil products that can used as underlayment.
>
> I have a list of links to several unbiased, government and university
> technical sources on my website: www.reflectafoam.com/technical.html.
> If anybody needs further info or specific information, don't hesitate
> to contact me.
>
> Thanks, Donnie.
>
>



Posted by on August 10, 2007, 10:50 pm
> One of the major problems with any radiant system is that the dust that
> forms on its surface will degrade it reflectivity. One of the biggest
> problems with radiant barriers. Oak Ridge has a good deal of info on this,
> one doc I see referenced from your website "Radiation Control Fact Sheet"
> found on the Oak Ridge website. It discusses how these barriers defrade over
> time. Even so, people who live in the sun belt, Arizona and the like, would
> benefit greatly from adding a radiant control barrier to their homes.
>
>
>
> >> What I know about it, its a spray on, like paint, can be spryed with
> >> airless
> >> equipment, as to uniform, depends on how well you can spray, like paint,
> >> down here in texas some insulators are also into spraying it, I want to
> >> say
> >> I have heard that Sherwin Williams stores have the paint, or check with
> >> the
> >> Florida Solar Energy Center, may can get more info from there.
>
>
> >> > Hi Craig.
>
> >> > I'm not failure with a spray-onradiantbarrier, do you know anything
> >> about
> >> > it?
> >> > Wonder as to how uniform it would be?
>
> >> > > One way I have seen it done is to have theradiantbarriersprayed in
> >> the
> >> > > attic, that is done a lot in retrofit, and seems to work pretty well,
> >> the
> >> > > plywood is still the way to go in new const though.- Hide quoted
> >> > > text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > All, spray on paints are, by definition of several sources, are "not"
> > radiant barriers. They are actually Interior Radiation Control
> > Coatings (IRCCs). A radiant barrier has to have a minimum of 10%
> > emissivity and 90% or more reflectivity (California Title 24 code is
> > even more stringent). There are several manufacturers of the
> > reflective paints, all with different reflectivities. A foil is a
> > "known quantitiy" by virture that the inherent properties of aluminum
> > foil have a 3% emissivity and 97% reflectivity. Paints are almost
> > always applied by a contractor just because most people do not want to
> > rent a spray applicator , deal with the mixing of the paint, etc.,
> > etc. Whereas, foils can be applied by different methodologies.
> > Another consideration about paints is that if the decking ever has to
> > be replaced due to damage, the paint goes away as well.
>
> > Regarding the San Francisco situation, concur that if you can't find
> > the OSB or plywood decking with the foil already adhered to it, there
> > are foils and other foil products that can used as underlayment.
>
> > I have a list of links to several unbiased, government and university
> > technical sources on my website: www.reflectafoam.com/technical.html.
> > If anybody needs further info or specific information, don't hesitate
> > to contact me.
>
> > Thanks, Donnie.

Okay, I've been an energy nut for a while, and have known about
radiant barrier decking for some years. But this is one I don't get.

The radiant barrier is essentially a layer of aluminum foil on one
side of the plywood. The aluminum foil reflects heat. In the attic,
the barrier is on the bottom side of the plywood, so would reflect
heat back into the attic, which is generally where I am trying to get
the heat away from. Isn't this counterproductive????

If someone were to put the foil on the top surface, it would be
useless because the shingles would be in contact with the foil,
killing it's effectiveness immediately.

What'd I miss?

(On the other hand, if I have a foil surface on the TOP of the
decking, but under a curved tile roof, there would be a space for the
foil to be effective, by reflecting the heat back up to the tiles.
The dust problem remains.)


Posted by Wayne Whitney on August 10, 2007, 11:13 pm

> The radiant barrier is essentially a layer of aluminum foil on one
> side of the plywood. The aluminum foil reflects heat. In the
> attic, the barrier is on the bottom side of the plywood, so would
> reflect heat back into the attic, which is generally where I am
> trying to get the heat away from. Isn't this counterproductive????

The key idea is that if an object is in equilibrium with its
surroundings, then the emissivity e = 1 - reflectivity r. So a highly
reflective surface has low emissivity. This allows the radiant
barrier plywood roof deck to heat up from the sun without radiating as
much heat into the attic as normal plywood. A side effect of this is
that the radiant barrier plywood will be hotter than normal plywood
would be under the same conditions.

Cheers, Wayne

Posted by on August 12, 2007, 10:25 pm
>
> > The radiant barrier is essentially a layer of aluminum foil on one
> > side of the plywood. The aluminum foil reflects heat. In the
> > attic, the barrier is on the bottom side of the plywood, so would
> > reflect heat back into the attic, which is generally where I am
> > trying to get the heat away from. Isn't this counterproductive????
>
> The key idea is that if an object is in equilibrium with its
> surroundings, then the emissivity e = 1 - reflectivity r. So a highly
> reflective surface has low emissivity. This allows the radiant
> barrier plywood roof deck to heat up from the sun without radiating as
> much heat into the attic as normal plywood. A side effect of this is
> that the radiant barrier plywood will be hotter than normal plywood
> would be under the same conditions.
>
> Cheers, Wayne

If I understand you, a shiny hot surface will be a poor emitter of
heat, even if it is much hotter than its surrounding air? And a flat
black pipe will be a much better heater/emitter than will a shiny
pipe?
I've got a lot of general background stuff, but I never picked up on
that one. It's intuitively obvious that a flat black surface would
absorb heat, but no so obvious that it would also be a better
emitter. I got some readin' to do...


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