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Steel I Beams Raider Bill 12-27-2006
---> Re: Steel I Beams Michael Bulatov...12-27-2006
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Posted by Raider Bill on December 29, 2006, 11:00 am

Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> That's a mighty big span, pardner.

I'm trying to limit the amount of pillers in the basement shop. Of
course if the whole thing collapses it's a moot point.

Bob,
"I'm not trying to run up your costs, but what you are proposing is
non-
standard construction and most building officials will want to see
engineering for the design of such a system. "

Fortunatally or un fortunatlly theres no building codes, inspections
nothing in this county where I'm building.

The plan is to go ICF up to the first floor, this will be mostly below
grade. set the I beams and joists then go ICF up again for the living
space. House will be single story ranch syle.
I have to have the floor joists in place before backfilling the
basement.

With a 40X50 footprint what would you suggest for amount of supports?

Due to location I am limited as to how much weight they will be as
getting a crane in there will be almost impossible.


Posted by Glenn on December 29, 2006, 11:59 am

>
>
> Due to location I am limited as to how much weight they will be
> as
> getting a crane in there will be almost impossible.
>
I was going to say that you WILL need a crane for that heavy of a
beam but the old time Egyptians would have thought that was childs
play.

You have a couple hundred slaves handy? :)


Posted by MichaelB on December 29, 2006, 12:44 pm

Raider Bill wrote:
> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
> > That's a mighty big span, pardner.
>
> I'm trying to limit the amount of pillers in the basement shop.

That's a common early conceptual mistake. Steel posts are cheap. So are
column footings. Limiting posts increases the amount of flexural steel
you are going to use, and its cost, not to mention increasing the
difficulty of handling the heavier section, and dealing with the
increased depth of it. If you have to have a clear span, then that's a
different story. hehe

You should design for the clear spans that you *need* and no more,
unless you've got money to burn.


Posted by Bob Morrison on December 29, 2006, 3:06 pm
In a previous post Raider Bill wrote...
> Fortunatally or un fortunatlly theres no building codes, inspections
> nothing in this county where I'm building.

This does not eliminate the need to build to whatever building code
standards your state has adopted.

> The plan is to go ICF up to the first floor, this will be mostly below
> grade. set the I beams and joists then go ICF up again for the living
> space. House will be single story ranch syle.
> I have to have the floor joists in place before backfilling the
> basement.

Do the beams have to support the ICF? Or, are the beams to support floor
framing only?

> With a 40X50 footprint what would you suggest for amount of supports?

You could put a row of posts down the middle and use 16"-18" I-joists to
span the 20 feet, then use 3 glu-lam or LVL beam spans of 16'-8" the other
way. Wood beam weight is about 350 pounds.

If you want to stay with 2x12 joists then max span for 2x12 DF-L #2 @ 16"
o/c is 17'-10" [IRC2003 Table R502.3.1(2)]. So you could use 3 spans of
16'-8" (50') and (2) 20-foot spans for beams. This gets you into a wood
beam that is in the 450 pound range. Use (3) 13'-4" beam spans and the
wood beam weight drops to less than 200 pounds.

> Due to location I am limited as to how much weight they will be as
> getting a crane in there will be almost impossible.
>

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com

Posted by DanG on December 29, 2006, 7:33 pm

You might talk to a local truss manufacturer and look at flat wood
trusses/ I joists/ etc.that clearspan the entire structure. You
will still need to work out details with a structural man and
contractor(s). In order to clear span, the joists will need to
get deeper which will affect elevations, stairs, etc. This may
still be preferable to a steel beam spanning and carrying a load
with a single post. The open web joists make it fairly easy to
run mechanical systems.

Here is some information:
http://www.truss-frame.com/design-flat.html
http://www.trusjoist.com/PDFFiles/1045.pdf
http://www.ilevel.com/literature/COM-3000.pdf


___________________________
Keep the whole world singing. . . .
DanG


>
> Michael Bulatovich wrote:
>> That's a mighty big span, pardner.
>
> I'm trying to limit the amount of pillers in the basement shop.
> Of
> course if the whole thing collapses it's a moot point.
>
> Bob,
> "I'm not trying to run up your costs, but what you are proposing
> is
> non-
> standard construction and most building officials will want to
> see
> engineering for the design of such a system. "
>
> Fortunatally or un fortunatlly theres no building codes,
> inspections
> nothing in this county where I'm building.
>
> The plan is to go ICF up to the first floor, this will be mostly
> below
> grade. set the I beams and joists then go ICF up again for the
> living
> space. House will be single story ranch syle.
> I have to have the floor joists in place before backfilling the
> basement.
>
> With a 40X50 footprint what would you suggest for amount of
> supports?
>
> Due to location I am limited as to how much weight they will be
> as
> getting a crane in there will be almost impossible.
>



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