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Posted by on August 23, 2008, 12:28 pm
> > On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:54:55 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
> > >On Aug 22, 12:55 pm, svietakov...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> Thank you guys, I knew I can count on you! I didn't expect such a
> > >> quick response though, I am really impressed.
> > >> What I was looking for, was confirmation that GC shouldn't proceed
> > >> without approved submittal, and if he does - it's his responsibility
> > >> if something goes wrong.
> > >> What does one do in the situation when architect is not responding in
> > >> timely manner to either RFIs or submittals, even if the owner is
> > >> informed and involved?
> > >Rattle some cages by sending a registered letter or telegram to the
> > >Owner and architect informing them that the lengthy delay will be
> > >raising the GC's costs and that a change order will be sent to the
> > >Owner requesting additional monies to cover the delay.
> > Why, it's not the owner or the architect's fault that the windows are
> > the wrong size. It is either the window company, or the GC. Whoever
> > made the error should pay, not the architect or owner.
> I agree with you that the GC has the primary duty to do a cursory
> review of the shop drawings, but it is the architect's job to review
> submittals and render verdicts. It is more troubling to me that there
> is such a delay in what should be a slam-dunk "Revise & Resubmit"
> rejection from the architect.
> There's also the fact that the usual supporting reason for
> substituting or changing items is due to unavailability/delays or cost
> savings. The Owner has a big say in those decisions.
> > >> Let's say that this lack of response is a reason for project delay -
> > >> are we gonna put whole responsibility on architect? I assume that
> > >> maximum response time suppose to be somewhere in General Conditions -
> > >> is that correct?
> > >The contract language should cover delays due to non-performance. If
> > >the architect used the standard AIA documents you can guess which way
> > >the bias goes.
> > >Read the contract, send the letters.
> > And tell us *why* the windows ended up the wrong size, who's fault
> > that was. No advice is worth a hill of beans (or even a small pile of
> > 'em) without that information.
> I don't understand the OP's coyness in where they fit into the
> picture. They don't seem to realize that different parties have
> different objectives.
> R
OK, let's put it all together.
It seems like all the parties involved screw up, more or less.
Windows manufacturer - bidding windows different than those shown in
contract documents.
Architect - not replying for submittal for way too long.
GC - proceeding with work without approved submittal.
What happens next? Framing is there (rough openings for smaller
windows). Architect says that it's unacceptable, it has to be redone,
new windows ordered. Who is gonna swallow the extra cost? Is it fully
GC responsibility? I know that one may need to know more details, but
that's all I know about the situation.
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Posted by RicodJour on August 23, 2008, 12:45 pm
On Aug 23, 12:28=A0pm, svietakov...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:54:55 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
> > > >On Aug 22, 12:55 pm, svietakov...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >> Thank you guys, I knew I can count on you! I didn't expect such a
> > > >> quick response though, I am really impressed.
> > > >> What I was looking for, was confirmation that GC shouldn't proceed
> > > >> without approved submittal, and if he does - it's his responsibili=
ty
> > > >> if something goes wrong.
> > > >> What does one do in the situation when architect is not responding=
in
> > > >> timely manner to either RFIs or submittals, even if the owner is
> > > >> informed and involved?
> > > >Rattle some cages by sending a registered letter or telegram to the
> > > >Owner and architect informing them that the lengthy delay will be
> > > >raising the GC's costs and that a change order will be sent to the
> > > >Owner requesting additional monies to cover the delay.
> > > Why, it's not the owner or the architect's fault that the windows are
> > > the wrong size. It is either the window company, or the GC. Whoever
> > > made the error should pay, not the architect or owner.
> > I agree with you that the GC has the primary duty to do a cursory
> > review of the shop drawings, but it is the architect's job to review
> > submittals and render verdicts. =A0It is more troubling to me that ther=
e
> > is such a delay in what should be a slam-dunk "Revise & Resubmit"
> > rejection from the architect.
> > There's also the fact that the usual supporting reason for
> > substituting or changing items is due to unavailability/delays or cost
> > savings. =A0The Owner has a big say in those decisions.
> > > >> Let's say that this lack of response is a reason for project delay=
-
> > > >> are we gonna put whole responsibility on architect? I assume that
> > > >> maximum response time suppose to be somewhere in General Condition=
s -
> > > >> is that correct?
> > > >The contract language should cover delays due to non-performance. =
=A0If
> > > >the architect used the standard AIA documents you can guess which wa=
y
> > > >the bias goes.
> > > >Read the contract, send the letters.
> > > And tell us *why* the windows ended up the wrong size, who's fault
> > > that was. No advice is worth a hill of beans (or even a small pile of
> > > 'em) without that information.
> > I don't understand the OP's coyness in where they fit into the
> > picture. =A0They don't seem to realize that different parties have
> > different objectives.
> > R
> OK, let's put it all together.
> It seems like all the parties involved screw up, more or less.
> Windows manufacturer - bidding windows different than those shown in
> contract documents.
> Architect - not replying for submittal for way too long.
> GC - proceeding with work without approved submittal.
> What happens next? Framing is there (rough openings for smaller
> windows). Architect says that it's unacceptable, it has to be redone,
> new windows ordered. Who is gonna swallow the extra cost? Is it fully
> GC responsibility? I know that one may need to know more details, but
> that's all I know about the situation.
There are so many variable that it's a pointless question to ask
unless someone feels like hypothesizing possible scenarios. I'd
rather answer specific questions about construction.
R
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Posted by PeterD on August 23, 2008, 4:29 pm
(As I have all gmail.com posters blocked, I'm replying using
RicordJour's message. Comments are directed to the OP however...)
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:45:17 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
>On Aug 23, 12:28 pm, svietakov...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:54:55 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
>> > > >On Aug 22, 12:55 pm, svietakov...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > >> Thank you guys, I knew I can count on you! I didn't expect such a
>> > > >> quick response though, I am really impressed.
>> > > >> What I was looking for, was confirmation that GC shouldn't proceed
>> > > >> without approved submittal, and if he does - it's his responsibility
>> > > >> if something goes wrong.
>> > > >> What does one do in the situation when architect is not responding in
>> > > >> timely manner to either RFIs or submittals, even if the owner is
>> > > >> informed and involved?
>> > > >Rattle some cages by sending a registered letter or telegram to the
>> > > >Owner and architect informing them that the lengthy delay will be
>> > > >raising the GC's costs and that a change order will be sent to the
>> > > >Owner requesting additional monies to cover the delay.
>> > > Why, it's not the owner or the architect's fault that the windows are
>> > > the wrong size. It is either the window company, or the GC. Whoever
>> > > made the error should pay, not the architect or owner.
>> > I agree with you that the GC has the primary duty to do a cursory
>> > review of the shop drawings, but it is the architect's job to review
>> > submittals and render verdicts. It is more troubling to me that there
>> > is such a delay in what should be a slam-dunk "Revise & Resubmit"
>> > rejection from the architect.
>> > There's also the fact that the usual supporting reason for
>> > substituting or changing items is due to unavailability/delays or cost
>> > savings. The Owner has a big say in those decisions.
>> > > >> Let's say that this lack of response is a reason for project delay -
>> > > >> are we gonna put whole responsibility on architect? I assume that
>> > > >> maximum response time suppose to be somewhere in General Conditions -
>> > > >> is that correct?
>> > > >The contract language should cover delays due to non-performance. If
>> > > >the architect used the standard AIA documents you can guess which way
>> > > >the bias goes.
>> > > >Read the contract, send the letters.
>> > > And tell us *why* the windows ended up the wrong size, who's fault
>> > > that was. No advice is worth a hill of beans (or even a small pile of
>> > > 'em) without that information.
>> > I don't understand the OP's coyness in where they fit into the
>> > picture. They don't seem to realize that different parties have
>> > different objectives.
>> > R
>> OK, let's put it all together.
>> It seems like all the parties involved screw up, more or less.
>> Windows manufacturer - bidding windows different than those shown in
>> contract documents.
So you, the GC didn't review the window maker's bid?
>> Architect - not replying for submittal for way too long.
The windows were wrong, the architect is not a major player in that
problem
>> GC - proceeding with work without approved submittal.
You said in your opening post, you were the GC. Are you not? Then who
are you, the owner? What's your stake in this?
>> What happens next? Framing is there (rough openings for smaller
>> windows).
Why, oh why, did you frame to the wrong specifications?
You have the plans from the architect, that is what you build, you
don't have the ability or authority to change the plans as you did,
especially for such a silly reason. What you should have done, was
built to the specifications and gotten the 'right' windows.
There are so many things wrong with that move it isn't even funny.
Sad, really. You should not hide the problem, but fix it.
>>Architect says that it's unacceptable, it has to be redone,
That makes 100% sense.
>> new windows ordered. Who is gonna swallow the extra cost?
Who authorized framing to the wrong specifications? He will pay. Who
continued without properly reviewing the window maker's bid to ensure
it met the specifications? He will pay. Wait, they are both the GC's
responsibility, and you said you were the GC. Right?
>> Is it fully
>> GC responsibility?
Yes, from everything you have posted, it is your fault.
>> I know that one may need to know more details, but
>> that's all I know about the situation.
You wouldn't be the owner, trying to be his own GC would you?
Figuring you could save a buck or two?
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Posted by on August 24, 2008, 11:26 am
Luckily it's only homework for school. But then - if I were the owner
trying to be his own GC - we wouldn't have a problem here. If owner/GC
accepts smaller windows (assuming that modified framing is not gonna
affect the rest of design) there is no need to rebuild the rough
openings.
Anyway - thank you guys for all your help - enjoy the rest of your
Sunday!
- svieta
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Posted by gudi on August 26, 2008, 7:22 am
On Aug 24, 8:26 pm, svietakov...@gmail.com wrote:
> Luckily it's only homework for school. But then - if I were the owner
> trying to be his own GC - we wouldn't have a problem here. If owner/GC
> accepts smaller windows (assuming that modified framing is not gonna
> affect the rest of design) there is no need to rebuild the rough
> openings.
> Anyway - thank you guys for all your help - enjoy the rest of your
> Sunday!
> - svieta
Just penalizing the one who deviated.. anyhow applies.But one may like
to ask, after all in an inter-dependant building business, are not the
rights responsibilities and privileges between GC, architect and
owner/client not clearly defined in _any_ contract?
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