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The REAL housing crisis: TOO MANY PEOPLE

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The REAL housing crisis: TOO MANY PEOPLE Enough Already 08-16-2007
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Posted by Matt Barrow on August 19, 2007, 7:01 pm

>
> I came in late on this conversation. Who is winning?
>

Those who don't advocate suicide.



Posted by Matt Barrow on August 18, 2007, 9:18 pm

>
> (snip)
>>>> I always tell people who think there's too many people to, "Be my
>>>> guest, you go first!", but the hypocrites NEVER oblige.
>>>
>>> And how many kids will you have during your lifetime?
>>
>> And what the hell does that have to do with anything?
>>
> If you have to ask, explanations will likely be pointless. Look up
> 'carrying capacity'.

Is it all you can do is barf back what your teachers told you?

Your evidently have no clue what the true carrying capacity of the earth is,
what it's been or what it will be.

When all you can do is "barf back", it's a common shortcoming.


>
> (Standard disclaimer- I am not one of those wacko 'childfree' zealots. I
> <like> kids, and replacements have to come from somewhere. But now that
> most of us do NOT live on farms and need to breed our own help, and now
> that 1 kid in 3 or so DOESN'T die by age five, well, maybe 'replacements'
> should be the term people keep in mind. 2.3 kids per breeding couple or so
> will assure population doesn't go down. Maybe a little higher to take into
> account the people like me that never succeeded in reproducing. I am one
> kid out of 8, with 7 surviving. Families that large make no economic or
> ecological sense any more. My sisters that did have kids had 2 each, so
> the genetic line will go on.)
>
> aem sends...

aem is utterly clueless and totally incapable of understanding the DYNAMIC
nature of the world and human capacity, particularly human capacity for
creativity and production.

When all you can do is look at static models, the real. dynamic world is
incomprehensible. That lack of ability is becoming more problematic with the
brickbrained nature of the contemporary school systems.

Thanks, but we do not need virtual retards to tell us how the world works
and how it sucks based on their adolesent levels of comprehension.





Posted by Dave on August 17, 2007, 9:47 am
> Recently, there's been news about corrupt loans and bailouts, and it's
> important. But, from a sustainability standpoint, the true housing
> crisis is that more homes are BUILT all the time, far beyond
> replacement levels. This is happening daily at the expense of
> wilderness, farmland and general elbow room. Who decided this constant
> blight upon the land was natural or desirable? It's not just a matter
> of NIMBY, it's about respecting physical limits.
>
> NIMBY is a term used to distract from what's really going on. Nobody
> should be forced to endure constant crowding, especially of the type
> occurring in the American West. Many realize that the shrinkage of
> prime land has driven up housing costs, but they still act like it can
> go on forever. Money is treated as a resource unto itself, and
> literally being cloned in certain professions. See:
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/money.htm
>
> The Earth is a finite mass and its surface gets more jammed each day.
> A lot of people are making money by charging for land that was once
> owned by nobody. The concept of permanent land ownership is purely a
> human one. Most species use what they need and pass on, rarely leaving
> permanent scars.
>
> Some will tell you that the "wasted" American desert should be filled
> with people; just because it might be feasible if enough water was
> diverted. The blight of Phoenix, Vegas and L.A. isn't enough for
> growth addicts seeking easy cash from land that was once free. A
> little smooth talking and they're loaded with false wealth, able to
> buy their own mansion in a transaction cycle that keeps on taking from
> nature. To hell with frontiers and unbroken vistas. A price tag must
> be placed on every piece of usable land that's not spoken for.
>
> Getting to the main point: the big reason these homes get built by the
> thousands each day is POPULATION GROWTH. In the U.S. this amounts to
> about 3 million more people annually. Worldwide it exceeds 70 million
> per year (net gain). If any other species tried to multiply at that
> rate, we'd declare a lock-down. But Man doesn't have to play by the
> rules of nature; so say the "conservatives."
>
> For comparison, deer are generally considered overpopulated (for
> hunting's sake) but they number only about 20 million in America vs.
> 300 million people, headed toward a possible 500 million by the end of
> the century. Each deer also has a much smaller "ecological footprint"
> compared to a person. You can barely tell that deer (or most other
> animals) exist in satellite views, while human habitation creates
> endless scars. Which species is truly overpopulated?
>
> Instead of harping on money and treating land as infinite, people
> should question the economic growthism and lack of global birth
> control that makes all these structures necessary. It seems that's too
> much to ask of the average person, though. They'd rather keep it
> shallow, ignore the root cause and whine about mortgages over
> cocktails.
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>
> Housing starts are a leading indicator of mindless population growth.
>

Nature has a way of limiting population growth of most any species. Mankind
has, temporarily, gone beyond that bounds. One way or another, it will
catch up with him. Either slowly in forms of famine and shrinking of
resources; or a major calamity. Nature will fix the aftermath.

Economically, you can't stagnate or shrink the population size and expect
economic growth. You can't make enough people care enough to contribute to
such a manual fix to overpopulation (limiting birthrate to 2 per couple over
many, many generations). It will have to happen on its own.
Dave



Posted by Matt Barrow on August 17, 2007, 1:53 pm


>
> Nature has a way of limiting population growth of most any species.
> Mankind has, temporarily, gone beyond that bounds.

Hardly.

Humankind has been more propsperous and healthy than at anytime in history.

> One way or another, it will catch up with him. Either slowly in forms of
> famine and shrinking of resources; or a major calamity.

Yeah, right. Paul Erlich pronouned the same thing and wound up looking like
an idiot.

> Nature will fix the aftermath.
>
> Economically, you can't stagnate or shrink the population size and expect
> economic growth.

Population demographics has very little to do with it. A small free-market
nation will always outproduce a large (or small) fascistic one.

> You can't make enough people care enough to contribute to such a manual
> fix to overpopulation (limiting birthrate to 2 per couple over many, many
> generations). It will have to happen on its own.

It already is in a sense. Mark Styen has note that, outside the Muslim
segments, all populations are heading for rapid decrease. This is only a
factor if the next generations are expected to bail out older generations
and their profligit welfare/nanny states.




Posted by Dave on August 18, 2007, 12:50 am
>
>
>>
>> Nature has a way of limiting population growth of most any species.
>> Mankind has, temporarily, gone beyond that bounds.
>
> Hardly.
>
> Humankind has been more propsperous and healthy than at anytime in
> history.
>
>> One way or another, it will catch up with him. Either slowly in forms of
>> famine and shrinking of resources; or a major calamity.
>
> Yeah, right. Paul Erlich pronouned the same thing and wound up looking
> like an idiot.
>
>> Nature will fix the aftermath.
>>
>> Economically, you can't stagnate or shrink the population size and expect
>> economic growth.
>
> Population demographics has very little to do with it. A small free-market
> nation will always outproduce a large (or small) fascistic one.
>
>> You can't make enough people care enough to contribute to such a manual
>> fix to overpopulation (limiting birthrate to 2 per couple over many, many
>> generations). It will have to happen on its own.
>
> It already is in a sense. Mark Styen has note that, outside the Muslim
> segments, all populations are heading for rapid decrease. This is only a
> factor if the next generations are expected to bail out older generations
> and their profligit welfare/nanny states.
>
>
>

Capitalism is based on more. Of the more, more consumers is part of the
equation to continue its growth. It is also the basis for Social Security.
If there's not more, the consumer contribution must increase both for
consumer goods and Social Security. Its the same thing.

To reduce such a needed contribution in a stagnant or reducing population,
total purchase of consumer goods in dollars must decrease as well as Social
Security benefits.

Economics 101.
Dave



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