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The real housing crisis is one of quantity

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The real housing crisis is one of quantity Enough Already 04-19-2008
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Posted by Enough Already on April 19, 2008, 3:29 pm
The REAL housing crisis is that TOO MANY of them are being built every
day, bad mortgages or not. Mindless overpopulation (75 million
annually, worldwide) is treated as natural. Nature is treated as
expendable.

People go about their business, talking about money and investments,
as if the land itself is infinite. They always claim there's "plenty
of land" but won't say relative to what. Unaffected acreage decreases
literally each second.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=human+footprint+map

"Economic growth" means more people and less nature each day, with
money creating a false measure of value in the process. A true housing
"bubble" is an entire round hill covered with them.

Real estate developers use money made from cannibalized land to
cannibalize even more land. The word FINITE is missing from too many
vocabularies.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/

Housing starts are a leading indicator of mindless growth.

Posted by Rose on April 19, 2008, 4:36 pm
> The REAL housing crisis is that TOO MANY of them are being built every
> day, bad mortgages or not. Mindless overpopulation (75 million
> annually, worldwide) is treated as natural. Nature is treated as
> expendable.
>
> People go about their business, talking about money and investments,
> as if the land itself is infinite. They always claim there's "plenty
> of land" but won't say relative to what. Unaffected acreage decreases
> literally each second.
>
> http://images.google.com/images?hl=3Den&q=3Dhuman+footprint+map
>
> "Economic growth" means more people and less nature each day, with
> money creating a false measure of value in the process. A true housing
> "bubble" is an entire round hill covered with them.
>
> Real estate developers use money made from cannibalized land to
> cannibalize even more land. The word FINITE is missing from too many
> vocabularies.
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>
> Housing starts are a leading indicator of mindless growth.

i agree, greed drove the industry and now many houses are sitting
empty, no one to buy and too many people losing homes they had, almost
seems pre-determined to cause this current problem, all seems to be
blamed on the housing market, but there are many other factors
involved, every market has been inflated, oil companies claiming they
are losing money, grocery stores, etc. and yes, too many homes were
built but that is not the economies problem really, the cost of
everything has soared, where will this end? and to what end? and why?

Posted by Art on April 19, 2008, 5:02 pm
Rose wrote:

>
> i agree, greed drove the industry and now many houses are sitting
> empty, no one to buy and too many people losing homes they had, almost
> seems pre-determined to cause this current problem, all seems to be
> blamed on the housing market, but there are many other factors
> involved, every market has been inflated, oil companies claiming they
> are losing money, grocery stores, etc. and yes, too many homes were
> built but that is not the economies problem really, the cost of
> everything has soared, where will this end? and to what end? and why?

It won't end. It is the natural cycle of things. It's a buyer's market
now and in a year or two it'll be a seller's market again. All markets
fluctuate up and down. Sometimes it's severe and sometimes just minor.

--
Art

Posted by Mark M. on April 19, 2008, 7:59 pm
Rose wrote:
>
>>The REAL housing crisis is that TOO MANY of them are being built every
>>day, bad mortgages or not. Mindless overpopulation (75 million
>>annually, worldwide) is treated as natural. Nature is treated as
>>expendable.
>>
>>People go about their business, talking about money and investments,
>>as if the land itself is infinite. They always claim there's "plenty
>>of land" but won't say relative to what. Unaffected acreage decreases
>>literally each second.
>>
>>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=human+footprint+map
>>
>>"Economic growth" means more people and less nature each day, with
>>money creating a false measure of value in the process. A true housing
>>"bubble" is an entire round hill covered with them.
>>
>>Real estate developers use money made from cannibalized land to
>>cannibalize even more land. The word FINITE is missing from too many
>>vocabularies.
>>
>>E.A.
>>
>>http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>>
>>Housing starts are a leading indicator of mindless growth.
>
>
> i agree, greed drove the industry and now many houses are sitting
> empty, no one to buy and too many people losing homes they had, almost
> seems pre-determined to cause this current problem, all seems to be
> blamed on the housing market, but there are many other factors
> involved, every market has been inflated, oil companies claiming they
> are losing money, grocery stores, etc. and yes, too many homes were
> built but that is not the economies problem really, the cost of
> everything has soared, where will this end? and to what end? and why?

The key to understanding the housing bubble is understanding what drives up
land prices. The OP is correct in saying that new construction was over
done. The reason is rising land value, but why did land values double and
redouble since the 1980's?

In our system, the financial sector has no problem creating funds for
inflating land value. In fact, in a rising land market, mortgage lenders
KNOW they can write home purchase checks without ANY real money on hand.
They KNOW that real estate sellers will put ALL the money right back into
buying other land.

Land prices rise because they are rising. All it takes is a small push
like a drop in property taxes, capital gains taxes, or a drop in interest
rates and it's off to the races. The upturn in land prices means this
capital gains opportunity will be reflected in even higher land prices.

And so it goes until everybody is mortgage debted up to their eyeballs. At
this point all it takes is one little bitty ol economic nastiness that
reduces the ability to make those big mortgage payments. A war or a sudden
jump in oil prices works nicely. Then the whole thing comes down with a crash.

Land prices cannot level off smoothly. As soon as they stop rising, they
have to fall and fall hard. This is because a big part of land price is
about the future investment payoff that buyers expect in a rising land
market. No more expected price appreciation, no more price premium.

Mark M.

Posted by RogerDodger on April 21, 2008, 12:57 am


>
>The key to understanding the housing bubble is understanding what drives up
>land prices. The OP is correct in saying that new construction was over
>done. The reason is rising land value, but why did land values double and
>redouble since the 1980's?...

The Shiller home price index shows home prices in the 20 major urban
areas rose a real 21% during the 15 years 1987-2002 -- a tad more than
1% a year.

So much for "double and double again".

This is entirely consistent with Shiller's data showing home price
appreciation barely exceeding inflation, appreciating by about 0.5%
real per year, for the last century.

Which is entirely consistent with USDA/NASS price index of all
farmland in the US, which shows land prices across the great bulk of
the US barely matching inflation, appreciating by about 0.5% real per
year, for the last century.

These indices show land value hasn't doubled even once in the last 100
years, much less gone "double and double again" since the 1980s.

Georgists. ;-)

There's their world and there's ours.

Put your money in land, then do nothing as a landowner but wait for it
to appreciate in value ... and die broke. ;-(

As to the home price boom, it has been *world wide* -- Britain,
France, Spain, Australia, New Zealand, China, all around the globe,
and in several foreign nations it's been much *bigger* than in the US
-- and it has all happened everywhere simultaneously in the last six
years.

So a different explanation is called for, other than repitition of ye
olde fact-free Georgist creed.

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