electrical detached garage ?

Posted by on February 23, 2009, 12:44 pm

> >> jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Any electricians in the group? =A0Building a detacted garage about 12
> >>> feet from the house. =A0Want to put in a 70amp subpanel. =A0From what=

I've

> >>> read the garage need's to have it's own grounding rod. And I need to
> >>> run both hots, a neutral, and a ground from the main panel. =A0And th=

> >>> ground and neutral need to NOT be connected together in the sub panel=

> >>> Have I got this right???
> >> You got it. =A0But you don't need 70A in a detached garage. =A030 woul=

d be

> >> more than ample. =A0(no pun intended)
> >> steve

> > Thanks :-)
> > Sorry my bad, detached 28x30 garage with finished space above. =A0I nee=

d to

> > run a 1 1/2 ton heat pump (too big but the smallest they make in a
> > conventional split) and a 20 gallon hot water heater. =A0Plus the usual
> > lights/outlets. =A0Garage will be a bit of a workshop as well. =A0Got a=

> > space panel. =A02 for the heat pump, 2 for the hot water. One 20amp for
> > outlets in the garage on 12/2. =A0One 15 amp for lights and outlets in =

the

> > space above on 14/2. =A0Was figuring on putting one upstairs outlet on =

the

> > 20amp circuit for a microwave. =A0Will be a "bar" style kitchenette at =

one

> > end, little fridge and microwave. =A0Also a 3/4 bath in a dormer.
> > I did see that the question had been answered a lot but like everything
> > else on the internet there were a lot of different answers :-) =A0Wante=

d to

> > make sure I had picked the best answer.

> *I would put in a 20 space panel to allow for future expansion. =A0A kitc=

hen

> requires two 20 amp circuits and a bathroom one 20 amp circuit. =A0Check =

out

> these small package units from Friedrich. =A0They are great for apartment=

s and

> condos and you don't need a technician to install them:http://www.friedri=

ch.com/products/LineOverview.php?line=3DA- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

Posted by John Grabowski on February 23, 2009, 1:24 pm

> >> jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Any electricians in the group? Building a detacted garage about 12
> >>> feet from the house. Want to put in a 70amp subpanel. From what I've
> >>> read the garage need's to have it's own grounding rod. And I need to
> >>> run both hots, a neutral, and a ground from the main panel. And the
> >>> ground and neutral need to NOT be connected together in the sub panel.
> >>> Have I got this right???
> >> You got it. But you don't need 70A in a detached garage. 30 would be
> >> more than ample. (no pun intended)
> >> steve

> > Thanks :-)
> > Sorry my bad, detached 28x30 garage with finished space above. I need to
> > run a 1 1/2 ton heat pump (too big but the smallest they make in a
> > conventional split) and a 20 gallon hot water heater. Plus the usual
> > lights/outlets. Garage will be a bit of a workshop as well. Got a 6
> > space panel. 2 for the heat pump, 2 for the hot water. One 20amp for
> > outlets in the garage on 12/2. One 15 amp for lights and outlets in the
> > space above on 14/2. Was figuring on putting one upstairs outlet on the
> > 20amp circuit for a microwave. Will be a "bar" style kitchenette at one
> > end, little fridge and microwave. Also a 3/4 bath in a dormer.
> > I did see that the question had been answered a lot but like everything
> > else on the internet there were a lot of different answers :-) Wanted to
> > make sure I had picked the best answer.

> *I would put in a 20 space panel to allow for future expansion. A kitchen
> requires two 20 amp circuits and a bathroom one 20 amp circuit. Check out
> these small package units from Friedrich. They are great for apartments
> and
> condos and you don't need a technician to install
> them:http://www.friedrich.com/products/LineOverview.php?line=A- Hide
> quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -

It's not really a kitchen, more like a bar. And I figured I could get
away with just using running the 3/4 bath off the 15 amp that the
lights and outlets are on. Think that's a bad idea? The living space
is inside a 12 in 12 a frame roof with a 14' shed dormer on the back
and a couple conventional dormers on the front so it's not really all
that big.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/

Yea but all the alternative hvac systems all seem to cost 2 or 3 times
as much as conventional splits. Guess that's do to volume. Cost is a
factor of course. And I can do a split install, just have to use
silver solder on the freon lines since my copper brazing skills
suck :-)

*Code requires 20 amps for the bathroom unless there is only a toilet with
no sink or shower. If someone uses a blow dryer in there you will regret
sharing it with another 15 amp circuit. It's up to the inspector to
determine if the bar can be considered a kitchen or not, but if it was me I
would put the two 20 amp circuits in there. The usage of the space may
change in the future and you may add more appliances. I prefer to keep the
lighting circuits separate from the outlet circuits when wiring rooms from
scratch.

Don't short change now while it is being built and the easiest time to
install wiring (And plumbing). If you haven't already planned to do so you
should consider prewiring for telephone, TV and computer.

I got a great deal on one of those Friedrich units several years ago from
Johnstone Supply because I am an electrical contractor.

Posted by on February 23, 2009, 1:51 pm

> > >> jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> Any electricians in the group? Building a detacted garage about 12
> > >>> feet from the house. Want to put in a 70amp subpanel. From what I'v=

> > >>> read the garage need's to have it's own grounding rod. And I need t=

> > >>> run both hots, a neutral, and a ground from the main panel. And the
> > >>> ground and neutral need to NOT be connected together in the sub pan=

el.

> > >>> Have I got this right???
> > >> You got it. But you don't need 70A in a detached garage. 30 would be
> > >> more than ample. (no pun intended)
> > >> steve
> > > Thanks :-)
> > > Sorry my bad, detached 28x30 garage with finished space above. I need=

> > > run a 1 1/2 ton heat pump (too big but the smallest they make in a
> > > conventional split) and a 20 gallon hot water heater. Plus the usual
> > > lights/outlets. Garage will be a bit of a workshop as well. Got a 6
> > > space panel. 2 for the heat pump, 2 for the hot water. One 20amp for
> > > outlets in the garage on 12/2. One 15 amp for lights and outlets in t=

> > > space above on 14/2. Was figuring on putting one upstairs outlet on t=

> > > 20amp circuit for a microwave. Will be a "bar" style kitchenette at o=

> > > end, little fridge and microwave. Also a 3/4 bath in a dormer.
> > > I did see that the question had been answered a lot but like everythi=

> > > else on the internet there were a lot of different answers :-) Wanted=

> > > make sure I had picked the best answer.

> > *I would put in a 20 space panel to allow for future expansion. A kitch=

> > requires two 20 amp circuits and a bathroom one 20 amp circuit. Check o=

> > these small package units from Friedrich. They are great for apartments
> > and
> > condos and you don't need a technician to install
> > them:http://www.friedrich.com/products/LineOverview.php?line=3DA-Hide
> > quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -

> It's not really a kitchen, more like a bar. And I figured I could get
> away with just using running the 3/4 bath off the 15 amp that the
> lights and outlets are on. =A0Think that's a bad idea? =A0The living spac=

> is inside a 12 in 12 a frame roof with a 14' shed dormer on the back
> and a couple conventional dormers on the front so it's not really all
> that big.
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/
> Yea but all the alternative hvac systems all seem to cost 2 or 3 times
> as much as conventional splits. =A0Guess that's do to volume. =A0Cost is =

> factor of course. =A0And I can do a split install, just have to use
> silver solder on the freon lines since my copper brazing skills
> suck :-)
> *Code requires 20 amps for the bathroom unless there is only a toilet wit=

> no sink or shower. =A0If someone uses a blow dryer in there you will regr=

> sharing it with another 15 amp circuit. =A0It's up to the inspector to
> determine if the bar can be considered a kitchen or not, but if it was me=

> would put the two 20 amp circuits in there. =A0The usage of the space may
> change in the future and you may add more appliances. =A0I prefer to keep=

the

> lighting circuits separate from the outlet circuits when wiring rooms fro=

> scratch.
> Don't short change now while it is being built and the easiest time to
> install wiring (And plumbing). =A0If you haven't already planned to do so=

you

> should consider prewiring for telephone, TV and computer.
> I got a great deal on one of those Friedrich units several years ago from
> Johnstone Supply because I am an electrical contractor.- Hide quoted text=

> - Show quoted text -

Posted by John Grabowski on February 23, 2009, 2:37 pm

> > >> jamesgan...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>> Any electricians in the group? Building a detacted garage about 12
> > >>> feet from the house. Want to put in a 70amp subpanel. From what I've
> > >>> read the garage need's to have it's own grounding rod. And I need to
> > >>> run both hots, a neutral, and a ground from the main panel. And the
> > >>> ground and neutral need to NOT be connected together in the sub
> > >>> panel.
> > >>> Have I got this right???
> > >> You got it. But you don't need 70A in a detached garage. 30 would be
> > >> more than ample. (no pun intended)
> > >> steve
> > > Thanks :-)
> > > Sorry my bad, detached 28x30 garage with finished space above. I need
> > > to
> > > run a 1 1/2 ton heat pump (too big but the smallest they make in a
> > > conventional split) and a 20 gallon hot water heater. Plus the usual
> > > lights/outlets. Garage will be a bit of a workshop as well. Got a 6
> > > space panel. 2 for the heat pump, 2 for the hot water. One 20amp for
> > > outlets in the garage on 12/2. One 15 amp for lights and outlets in
> > > the
> > > space above on 14/2. Was figuring on putting one upstairs outlet on
> > > the
> > > 20amp circuit for a microwave. Will be a "bar" style kitchenette at
> > > one
> > > end, little fridge and microwave. Also a 3/4 bath in a dormer.
> > > I did see that the question had been answered a lot but like
> > > everything
> > > else on the internet there were a lot of different answers :-) Wanted
> > > to
> > > make sure I had picked the best answer.

> > *I would put in a 20 space panel to allow for future expansion. A
> > kitchen
> > requires two 20 amp circuits and a bathroom one 20 amp circuit. Check
> > out
> > these small package units from Friedrich. They are great for apartments
> > and
> > condos and you don't need a technician to install
> > them:http://www.friedrich.com/products/LineOverview.php?line=A-Hide
> > quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -

> It's not really a kitchen, more like a bar. And I figured I could get
> away with just using running the 3/4 bath off the 15 amp that the
> lights and outlets are on. Think that's a bad idea? The living space
> is inside a 12 in 12 a frame roof with a 14' shed dormer on the back
> and a couple conventional dormers on the front so it's not really all
> that big.
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jamesgangnc/garage/
> Yea but all the alternative hvac systems all seem to cost 2 or 3 times
> as much as conventional splits. Guess that's do to volume. Cost is a
> factor of course. And I can do a split install, just have to use
> silver solder on the freon lines since my copper brazing skills
> suck :-)
> *Code requires 20 amps for the bathroom unless there is only a toilet with
> no sink or shower. If someone uses a blow dryer in there you will regret
> sharing it with another 15 amp circuit. It's up to the inspector to
> determine if the bar can be considered a kitchen or not, but if it was me
> I
> would put the two 20 amp circuits in there. The usage of the space may
> change in the future and you may add more appliances. I prefer to keep the
> lighting circuits separate from the outlet circuits when wiring rooms from
> scratch.
> Don't short change now while it is being built and the easiest time to
> install wiring (And plumbing). If you haven't already planned to do so you
> should consider prewiring for telephone, TV and computer.
> I got a great deal on one of those Friedrich units several years ago from
> Johnstone Supply because I am an electrical contractor.- Hide quoted
> text -
> - Show quoted text -

Yea. your'e probably right. I should switch to an 10 space panel
rather than regret it. It's not like they are expensive or anything.
I will run r6, phone, and cat5 while I'm at it.

Any thoughts on running power, water, and sewer through a 15" by 9"
chase? I have no idea how code treats an exterior chase between
buildings.

*Off hand I don't see a problem with the utilities combined in one chase.
However you should check with your building department as they are the ones
who can say yay or nay. Put in a 12/20 panel. 12 spaces, 20 circuits or a
12/ 24. You want more room for expansion.

Posted by tim on February 23, 2009, 6:14 pm

>
> Yea. your'e probably right. I should switch to an 10 space
> panel rather than regret it. It's not like they are expensive
> or anything. I will run r6, phone, and cat5 while I'm at it.
>
> Any thoughts on running power, water, and sewer through a 15" by
> 9" chase? I have no idea how code treats an exterior chase
> between buildings.
>
>
> *Off hand I don't see a problem with the utilities combined in
> one chase. However you should check with your building
> department as they are the ones who can say yay or nay. Put in
> a 12/20 panel. 12 spaces, 20 circuits or a 12/ 24. You want
> more room for expansion.
>
>

I think the key work here is 'external'. As long as you treat
everything inside the chase is if it was truely external (exposed)
you shouldn't have any problems. Remember to keep the AC and the low
power the required distance apart (I forget the exact space but it's
like 12" or so) so there won't be any issues with induced power
and/or interference. It wouldn't hurt to put some of that nice
closed foam snap-around insulation around the water and sewer pipes
as well.

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