main water valve is not shutting completely

Posted by bent on February 17, 2007, 10:49 pm

I tried turning my main water shut-off valve completely in clockwise (maybe
2 complete revs) to turn the water off. I tried it on 2 separate occasions
recently. I then opened all the taps and flushed the 2 toilets on both the
main and basement levels. I did nothing to the natural gas water heater
close by. It has no separate water out shut-off, and I saw no reason to
unplug it (built in exhaust fan) or turn off the gas.

Both times the water ran on at the lowest open tap. I ran it for an hour or
more. It is enough permanent leaking to fill up a cup in less than a
minute. I believe it was cool water, if not cold.

The valve with the std. handle wheel I am talking about is just before the
water meter coming up through the concrete foundation slab at the front of
the house. The valve assembly is attached to the pipe and at meter with a
hex threading similar to a gas fitting like the gas lines nearby. Hex on
both ends, and also at the valve stem. Some 4" long or so, flower bulb
shaped.

Is there any chance that the valve may not be broken? Do I need to do
something else to get the water to stop completely? I recently painted
around the pipes, and there is a out-jutting thingy at right angles that may
be an air-release or something I don't know about that I painted over with
white rust paint.

I've been reading about these things on the web and I may need to dig up my
lawn, buy a wrench, call a plumber who may need to freeze the line, or
other. Anyone add any help as to what/who/how much I'm looking at?

I'm in Toronto, ON.

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Posted by marson on February 18, 2007, 8:30 am

> I tried turning my main water shut-off valve completely in clockwise (maybe
> 2 complete revs) to turn the water off. I tried it on 2 separate occasions
> recently. I then opened all the taps and flushed the 2 toilets on both the
> main and basement levels. I did nothing to the natural gas water heater
> close by. It has no separate water out shut-off, and I saw no reason to
> unplug it (built in exhaust fan) or turn off the gas.
> Both times the water ran on at the lowest open tap. I ran it for an hour or
> more. It is enough permanent leaking to fill up a cup in less than a
> minute. I believe it was cool water, if not cold.
> The valve with the std. handle wheel I am talking about is just before the
> water meter coming up through the concrete foundation slab at the front of
> the house. The valve assembly is attached to the pipe and at meter with a
> hex threading similar to a gas fitting like the gas lines nearby. Hex on
> both ends, and also at the valve stem. Some 4" long or so, flower bulb
> shaped.
> Is there any chance that the valve may not be broken? Do I need to do
> something else to get the water to stop completely? I recently painted
> around the pipes, and there is a out-jutting thingy at right angles that may
> be an air-release or something I don't know about that I painted over with
> white rust paint.
> I've been reading about these things on the web and I may need to dig up my
> lawn, buy a wrench, call a plumber who may need to freeze the line, or
> other. Anyone add any help as to what/who/how much I'm looking at?
> I'm in Toronto, ON.
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I recently had the same problem at my own house. 90 year old shut off
valve wouldn't shut off. I "solved" the problem by adding a valve
just downstream of the water meter, so I could shut the water off
completely to my house. The water meter had a compression type
fitting, so it was possible to pull this off even with water leaking
out of it. The other solution is to shut off the water to your whole
house at the street. Your city water dept should be able to help you
find the valve. Then you need what is called a "street key" to turn
the valve closed (might have to have a licensed plumber to do this).

Posted by bent on February 18, 2007, 12:19 pm

I cannot picture what you did, could you expand slightly please - how much
was your leaking?

I actually have to fix 2 lines (hot and cold) at the elbows, including maybe
4" either side. So I need 4 cuts. I am thinking I I could solder up some
angles beforehand and I could use 5/8" compression fittings on the 4 ends,
but don't know with all this water and I don't know if I can use a
spin-cutter, &/or dremel, &/or 4-1/2" grinding wheel, &/or hack saw blade
considering access. At a cup in less then a minute, that could quickly be a
mess.

I have never used a compression fitting, and do not know how smooth,
straight the ends need to be (i.e. if cut shove a rasp in it, done is
enough), nor if I can do a good job with water leaking through it at the
time. Is there any reason to suspect this doesn't always go as planned?

PS more info on original problem please. I know this situation isn't good.

> I recently had the same problem at my own house. 90 year old shut off
> valve wouldn't shut off. I "solved" the problem by adding a valve
> just downstream of the water meter, so I could shut the water off
> completely to my house. The water meter had a compression type
> fitting, so it was possible to pull this off even with water leaking
> out of it. The other solution is to shut off the water to your whole
> house at the street. Your city water dept should be able to help you
> find the valve. Then you need what is called a "street key" to turn
> the valve closed (might have to have a licensed plumber to do this).
>

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Posted by bent on February 18, 2007, 12:32 pm

There is no room for anything other than the meter and its' fittings in the
short horizontal run before it turns into a 1" or 3/4" vertical run that
breaks off to the water heater. The vertical up from the foundation has the
current (leaking?) valve, and theres no room there. So I would need to
install a compression valve in the (3/4"?) horizontal run, and would not as
you say, need to disconnect the meter I guess. Wondering what you did

I just noticed something. There is a shut off valve in the run between the
main water supply and the water heater. It is after the meter, which is
also after the current shut-off valve. Is it possible there is pressure in
the hot water tank driving cool water to the pipes thirty/fifty feet of run
away?

DO I need to shut water valve into the hot water heater off?

>I cannot picture what you did, could you expand slightly please - how much
>was your leaking?

....

> I have never used a compression fitting

Posted by bent on February 18, 2007, 12:42 pm

I am still concerned about the main topic, but now I am also interested in
how a man is to locate his own shut-off valve in his/her lawn. Is it that
round steel thing about 4" in Dia that has a square (approx 1") in the
center that sometimes is visible. I didn't know what those were, and I
can't say I've even seen one in my lawn. How do I find mine? Is it at
right angles to the lines inside at the foundation. How close/far to
sidewalk or other reference (same as others on street?) I think I can

imagine what the wrench looks like: (<>)==. If I were to locate a wrench

and my valve in the lawn, and since I don't have one working inside, is it a
hanging offense to use it as the (capable) homeOwner?

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