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steel building house revisited brianlanning 10-04-2006
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Posted by Raider Bill on October 25, 2006, 2:14 pm
Actually, I checked with the county planner and building boss, He said
that aside from a state mandated septic tank permit and a final elec.
inspection when the power is connected there are no other inspections,
permits, nothing. I gues it's a build what you want and take your
chances type of County.

Here in Pinellas Co Florida, we have Inspectors, inspecting
inspections, planning dept's , zoneing etc. I guess this freedom plus
the mountains has helped prompt me to move half way back after 20 plus
years in the sunshine/property insurance state.

My Idea is a post and beam center structure 24x40x12 wall height with 2
stick frame 12x40x 10 "leanto's" if you will on either side for
bedrooms, and baths. A post and beam front porch with the same roof
line as the lean to's will complete that floor. A full cellar/workshop
below. I'm thinking a 10 foot ceiling height there.

For simplicity, I was considering, 8" posts with 2x6 stud walls
external so the post and beams show through on ther inside 2x4 stud on
the inside. I figure the 2x6 will give me more insulation.

This will go in the middle of 69 acres on top of a rolling hill.

I'm very open to suggestions about anything here. I have a bunch of
things I did to my currant house such as dog doors in the wall, mud
rooms, laundry next to masterbedrrom, shoe kicks etc.

Thanks,

Bill

Bob Morrison wrote:
> In a previous post Raider Bill wrote...
> > I looked around and found this guy,
> > http://www.timberframedesign.net/Index.html
> > Does anyone know of him? Any suggestions?>
> > What should I expect to pay for a designer/ arch.?
> >
>
> From his website he looks like he knows what he is doing. Don't be
> surprised if your local jurisdiction requires engineering calculations for
> this type of house.
>
> > On another note, this has really gone past the steel house revisited
> > thread, should I open up another one?
>
> Yes, I just did
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
> bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com


Posted by Organic on October 14, 2006, 4:58 pm
Wow I was surprised by the lack of creative thought of most of the
people that responded.

I have thought of doing the same thing and have looked at using
strawbales to create the non-load bearing walls. Great insulation and
cheap and you could have your family help put it together after you
hire one knowledgeble person to organize and teach you. Use an earthen
plaster and perhaps a lime plaster finishing coat for durability and
it would be good.
You could use cob construction (earthen/mud walls) for interior walls
as well although they should be judicially placed in regards to
collecting solar energy as they would be a great thermal mass and not
so great as insulation. If you are sceptical of cob walls you would be
surprised on how you can plaster them and they look absolutely great..
of course there is some skill required in plastering but you could
hire someone to help and teach you at the start.

I believe your idea for radiant floor heating is good for some of the
individual bed rooms but use proper solar design principles to catch
the solar energy to help heat the rest of the large rooms in your
structure.

Building a house is a large undertaking and yes I do value engineering
professionals to supply the needed knowledge to ensure your structure
does not pose a hazard to your family or is going to be underdesigned
for plumbing , electriciy or heating/cooling, BUT i believe that the
wooden/drywall structures we live in today are far removed from what
is natural for a man to provide shelter and comfort to his family.
Buiding livable and safe structure is not rocket science. I believe
we have given away far too much of our power of providing shelter for
ourselves and family by having building codes that are too rigid and
"professional" attitudes that only serve to protect the "status quo"
and tends to support the banking, lawyer and insurance industries as
well.

Peace,
Roban



wrote:

>Hi Everyone. I posted a while back about the 5000sqft basement and got
>a lot of good answers. I have a few more now But first some
>background and an update.
>
>We're sort of in a blue-sky brainstorming out-of-the-box thinking mode
>now. We have nine kids and have decided that traditional houses just
>aren't cutting it for us. The space is used inefficiently and the
>layout is totally wrong for our needs.
>
>When I say steel building, I mean a large factory made steel building
>shell with steel paneling on the outside and inside with 6" of
>insulation between them. We'll have some windows and doors to start,
>but will probably add more later.
>
>We decided against the basement (yea!). We'll probably build some sort
>of concrete tornado room or something instead. Haven't given it much
>thought yet.
>
>The size is now probably 50x80.
>
>The idea is to get into the house as cheaply as possible up front, then
>have a lot of flexability and options to partition the space later. By
>doing it this way, we can pay cash for everything and add rooms or
>features as we have the money. No mortgage. And we would end up with
>an industrial loft type house with a lot of space and with our unusual
>requirements for a house.
>
>So I have a few new questions.
>
>First, instead of the basement I'm thinking we'll opt for an 18-20 foot
>eve height. The idea is that we'll have really high ceilings now, and
>add a free-standing second floor later inside the shell. I figure
>we'll start with some normal 1st floor type rooms, but make the
>ceilings in these rooms out of appropriate floor joists for a second
>floor, so like 2x6s or 2x8s, at the normal 8 or 9 feet off the ground.
>Later, I would just climb up there, put in a staircase, throw down some
>plywood, flooring, and whatever else to make a second floor. I think
>I'll have to treat these like load bearing walls. I can't transfer the
>weight of the second floor to the shell. So they'll have to be
>free-standing. Would I need a footer under the slab under all these
>walls? I'd like to have the freedom to rearrange the locations of the
>new walls after we've moved in. So maybe rebar in the slab instead of
>wire mesh or a thicker slab would make the footers under the interior
>walls unnecessary?
>
>What if I made a post and beam type structure, footers under the posts?
>
>
>I've seen these free-standing steel structures in industrial settings.
>Maybe that would be better? What about footers under those? Can you
>point me at someone who sells such things?
>
>The second question is assuming a mostly flat grade to start, how much
>can I expect the footer and slab to cost?
>
>And lastly, we're thinking of doing this in a rural part of northern
>illinois or southern wisconsin. What can I expect the well and septic
>to cost, planning for a dozen people?
>
>>From steelbuildings.com, I'm estimating $35,000 for the shell. So here
>are the costs so far:
>
>shell - 35,000
>footer/slab - 16,000
>building assembly, 4 guys, a crane, and a week - 15,000 (this is a
>guess)
>windows and doors - 10,000
>well/septic - 10,000 (this is a guess)
>hvac - 10,000 (this is a guess)
>plumbing - 5,000 (this is a guess)
>electrical - 5,000 (this is a guess)
>general contractor crazy enough to do this - 20,000 (another guess)
>stuff we didn't think of - 20,000
>
>or 146,000.
>
>Does anyone have any interesting ideas?
>
>brian

Posted by Bryan on October 18, 2006, 1:15 am
Sorry I can't help the OP, I don't think. I've skimmed through the message
thread, and all I see is wanting a cheap commercial building to try to live
in & add to piece by piece. I too am thinking of building my first house in
about a year, and came across this site and pretty much made up my mind I
want one of these buildings. http://www.kodiaksteelhomes.com/

Maybe the OP can look into something like this, it has an open floor plan, a
"dry-in" kit is reasonable about $60-75k for frame, roof, & siding, the
largest I see is 3800sf.

Not to Hi-jack the tread, but maybe someone here can give me a ball park on
what it would cost to finish a 3000sf 2 story steel house, from slab to
drywall [Crestwood 3 on the site]. I all ready have a working well but would
need a new septic system as well. Is $100K possible, not counting the
framing, roofing & siding. (I live in central OK if geography makes pricing
different). I'd like to do some work myself to save $, but figure it's have
to save $500-1k to make it worth the extra time it would take me to finish
vs. a professional crew.

Hope the site might help the OP, or atleast give an alternate direction to
look at, and TIA for any input on my questions.
Bryan


> Hi Everyone. I posted a while back about the 5000sqft basement and got
> a lot of good answers. I have a few more now But first some
> background and an update.
>
> We're sort of in a blue-sky brainstorming out-of-the-box thinking mode
> now. We have nine kids and have decided that traditional houses just
> aren't cutting it for us. The space is used inefficiently and the
> layout is totally wrong for our needs.
>
> When I say steel building, I mean a large factory made steel building
> shell with steel paneling on the outside and inside with 6" of
> insulation between them. We'll have some windows and doors to start,
> but will probably add more later.
>
> We decided against the basement (yea!). We'll probably build some sort
> of concrete tornado room or something instead. Haven't given it much
> thought yet.
>
> The size is now probably 50x80.
>
> The idea is to get into the house as cheaply as possible up front, then
> have a lot of flexability and options to partition the space later. By
> doing it this way, we can pay cash for everything and add rooms or
> features as we have the money. No mortgage. And we would end up with
> an industrial loft type house with a lot of space and with our unusual
> requirements for a house.
>
> So I have a few new questions.
>
> First, instead of the basement I'm thinking we'll opt for an 18-20 foot
> eve height. The idea is that we'll have really high ceilings now, and
> add a free-standing second floor later inside the shell. I figure
> we'll start with some normal 1st floor type rooms, but make the
> ceilings in these rooms out of appropriate floor joists for a second
> floor, so like 2x6s or 2x8s, at the normal 8 or 9 feet off the ground.
> Later, I would just climb up there, put in a staircase, throw down some
> plywood, flooring, and whatever else to make a second floor. I think
> I'll have to treat these like load bearing walls. I can't transfer the
> weight of the second floor to the shell. So they'll have to be
> free-standing. Would I need a footer under the slab under all these
> walls? I'd like to have the freedom to rearrange the locations of the
> new walls after we've moved in. So maybe rebar in the slab instead of
> wire mesh or a thicker slab would make the footers under the interior
> walls unnecessary?
>
> What if I made a post and beam type structure, footers under the posts?
>
>
> I've seen these free-standing steel structures in industrial settings.
> Maybe that would be better? What about footers under those? Can you
> point me at someone who sells such things?
>
> The second question is assuming a mostly flat grade to start, how much
> can I expect the footer and slab to cost?
>
> And lastly, we're thinking of doing this in a rural part of northern
> illinois or southern wisconsin. What can I expect the well and septic
> to cost, planning for a dozen people?
>
>>From steelbuildings.com, I'm estimating $35,000 for the shell. So here
> are the costs so far:
>
> shell - 35,000
> footer/slab - 16,000
> building assembly, 4 guys, a crane, and a week - 15,000 (this is a
> guess)
> windows and doors - 10,000
> well/septic - 10,000 (this is a guess)
> hvac - 10,000 (this is a guess)
> plumbing - 5,000 (this is a guess)
> electrical - 5,000 (this is a guess)
> general contractor crazy enough to do this - 20,000 (another guess)
> stuff we didn't think of - 20,000
>
> or 146,000.
>
> Does anyone have any interesting ideas?
>
> brian
>



Posted by on October 18, 2006, 4:48 pm
Whew! I just found this place, you guys crack me up! Sounds likea meal
with the inlaws.....

I'm in the process of designing this very same idea. My idea is to have
a 50x100 di- vided in half with one side being liveing space and the
other my shop. At this time condensation is my concern.
I have 69 acres of woodland to use as material for a mock post and beam
interionr to the living space 3-2, with metal or wood frame [depending]
on cost inside walls. Sheet rock with tongue and groove will be the
coverings. a second floor open loft would extend across the 50 span
appromx 20 ft.

My footer will consist of poured columns where the red iron beams fall
out and a continuous footer connecting with number 5 rebar.

Building in TN, have got estimates for the concrete work, with $5.00 a
square foot being high. I will rent a track hoe and dig myself.
Prices on erecting the metal building are anywhere from $2.75 to $4.00
a square foot. I really only need them to erect the red iron and maybe
the roof panels.

Well drilling is $10.00 a foot and then $9.00 a foot for pipe. Bear in
mind once you hit rock you don't need anymore pipe.
Septic is $3000 for 1000 gallon model installed.

All plumbing, electical, inside framing, etc is DIY
Everything else I can do myself with a couple helper/laborers to
assist.




Bryan wrote:
> Sorry I can't help the OP, I don't think. I've skimmed through the message
> thread, and all I see is wanting a cheap commercial building to try to live
> in & add to piece by piece. I too am thinking of building my first house in
> about a year, and came across this site and pretty much made up my mind I
> want one of these buildings. http://www.kodiaksteelhomes.com/
>
> Maybe the OP can look into something like this, it has an open floor plan, a
> "dry-in" kit is reasonable about $60-75k for frame, roof, & siding, the
> largest I see is 3800sf.
>
> Not to Hi-jack the tread, but maybe someone here can give me a ball park on
> what it would cost to finish a 3000sf 2 story steel house, from slab to
> drywall [Crestwood 3 on the site]. I all ready have a working well but would
> need a new septic system as well. Is $100K possible, not counting the
> framing, roofing & siding. (I live in central OK if geography makes pricing
> different). I'd like to do some work myself to save $, but figure it's have
> to save $500-1k to make it worth the extra time it would take me to finish
> vs. a professional crew.
>
> Hope the site might help the OP, or atleast give an alternate direction to
> look at, and TIA for any input on my questions.
> Bryan
>
>
> > Hi Everyone. I posted a while back about the 5000sqft basement and got
> > a lot of good answers. I have a few more now But first some
> > background and an update.
> >
> > We're sort of in a blue-sky brainstorming out-of-the-box thinking mode
> > now. We have nine kids and have decided that traditional houses just
> > aren't cutting it for us. The space is used inefficiently and the
> > layout is totally wrong for our needs.
> >
> > When I say steel building, I mean a large factory made steel building
> > shell with steel paneling on the outside and inside with 6" of
> > insulation between them. We'll have some windows and doors to start,
> > but will probably add more later.
> >
> > We decided against the basement (yea!). We'll probably build some sort
> > of concrete tornado room or something instead. Haven't given it much
> > thought yet.
> >
> > The size is now probably 50x80.
> >
> > The idea is to get into the house as cheaply as possible up front, then
> > have a lot of flexability and options to partition the space later. By
> > doing it this way, we can pay cash for everything and add rooms or
> > features as we have the money. No mortgage. And we would end up with
> > an industrial loft type house with a lot of space and with our unusual
> > requirements for a house.
> >
> > So I have a few new questions.
> >
> > First, instead of the basement I'm thinking we'll opt for an 18-20 foot
> > eve height. The idea is that we'll have really high ceilings now, and
> > add a free-standing second floor later inside the shell. I figure
> > we'll start with some normal 1st floor type rooms, but make the
> > ceilings in these rooms out of appropriate floor joists for a second
> > floor, so like 2x6s or 2x8s, at the normal 8 or 9 feet off the ground.
> > Later, I would just climb up there, put in a staircase, throw down some
> > plywood, flooring, and whatever else to make a second floor. I think
> > I'll have to treat these like load bearing walls. I can't transfer the
> > weight of the second floor to the shell. So they'll have to be
> > free-standing. Would I need a footer under the slab under all these
> > walls? I'd like to have the freedom to rearrange the locations of the
> > new walls after we've moved in. So maybe rebar in the slab instead of
> > wire mesh or a thicker slab would make the footers under the interior
> > walls unnecessary?
> >
> > What if I made a post and beam type structure, footers under the posts?
> >
> >
> > I've seen these free-standing steel structures in industrial settings.
> > Maybe that would be better? What about footers under those? Can you
> > point me at someone who sells such things?
> >
> > The second question is assuming a mostly flat grade to start, how much
> > can I expect the footer and slab to cost?
> >
> > And lastly, we're thinking of doing this in a rural part of northern
> > illinois or southern wisconsin. What can I expect the well and septic
> > to cost, planning for a dozen people?
> >
> >>From steelbuildings.com, I'm estimating $35,000 for the shell. So here
> > are the costs so far:
> >
> > shell - 35,000
> > footer/slab - 16,000
> > building assembly, 4 guys, a crane, and a week - 15,000 (this is a
> > guess)
> > windows and doors - 10,000
> > well/septic - 10,000 (this is a guess)
> > hvac - 10,000 (this is a guess)
> > plumbing - 5,000 (this is a guess)
> > electrical - 5,000 (this is a guess)
> > general contractor crazy enough to do this - 20,000 (another guess)
> > stuff we didn't think of - 20,000
> >
> > or 146,000.
> >
> > Does anyone have any interesting ideas?
> >
> > brian
> >


Posted by Raider Bill on October 19, 2006, 9:08 am
Ok, now that you guys got me rethinking my metal home/shop idea where
do I go from here? If what everything I'm reading here is true. I need
to come up with plan b and or C.
I took a quick look at the monolithic cement dome homes that was
suggested in a prior post. Does anyone have experiance with them?
The plan was to build something that is cheap to build and operate,
have shop room and warm and cozy or cool and cozy depending on season.

As far as radiant heating the floors, any good links about that?



bill@fiainspectors.com wrote:
> Whew! I just found this place, you guys crack me up! Sounds likea meal
> with the inlaws.....
>
> I'm in the process of designing this very same idea. My idea is to have
> a 50x100 di- vided in half with one side being liveing space and the
> other my shop. At this time condensation is my concern.
> I have 69 acres of woodland to use as material for a mock post and beam
> interionr to the living space 3-2, with metal or wood frame [depending]
> on cost inside walls. Sheet rock with tongue and groove will be the
> coverings. a second floor open loft would extend across the 50 span
> appromx 20 ft.
>
> My footer will consist of poured columns where the red iron beams fall
> out and a continuous footer connecting with number 5 rebar.
>
> Building in TN, have got estimates for the concrete work, with $5.00 a
> square foot being high. I will rent a track hoe and dig myself.
> Prices on erecting the metal building are anywhere from $2.75 to $4.00
> a square foot. I really only need them to erect the red iron and maybe
> the roof panels.
>
> Well drilling is $10.00 a foot and then $9.00 a foot for pipe. Bear in
> mind once you hit rock you don't need anymore pipe.
> Septic is $3000 for 1000 gallon model installed.
>
> All plumbing, electical, inside framing, etc is DIY
> Everything else I can do myself with a couple helper/laborers to
> assist.
>
>
>
>
> Bryan wrote:
> > Sorry I can't help the OP, I don't think. I've skimmed through the message
> > thread, and all I see is wanting a cheap commercial building to try to live
> > in & add to piece by piece. I too am thinking of building my first house in
> > about a year, and came across this site and pretty much made up my mind I
> > want one of these buildings. http://www.kodiaksteelhomes.com/
> >
> > Maybe the OP can look into something like this, it has an open floor plan, a
> > "dry-in" kit is reasonable about $60-75k for frame, roof, & siding, the
> > largest I see is 3800sf.
> >
> > Not to Hi-jack the tread, but maybe someone here can give me a ball park on
> > what it would cost to finish a 3000sf 2 story steel house, from slab to
> > drywall [Crestwood 3 on the site]. I all ready have a working well but would
> > need a new septic system as well. Is $100K possible, not counting the
> > framing, roofing & siding. (I live in central OK if geography makes pricing
> > different). I'd like to do some work myself to save $, but figure it's have
> > to save $500-1k to make it worth the extra time it would take me to finish
> > vs. a professional crew.
> >
> > Hope the site might help the OP, or atleast give an alternate direction to
> > look at, and TIA for any input on my questions.
> > Bryan
> >
> >
> > > Hi Everyone. I posted a while back about the 5000sqft basement and got
> > > a lot of good answers. I have a few more now But first some
> > > background and an update.
> > >
> > > We're sort of in a blue-sky brainstorming out-of-the-box thinking mode
> > > now. We have nine kids and have decided that traditional houses just
> > > aren't cutting it for us. The space is used inefficiently and the
> > > layout is totally wrong for our needs.
> > >
> > > When I say steel building, I mean a large factory made steel building
> > > shell with steel paneling on the outside and inside with 6" of
> > > insulation between them. We'll have some windows and doors to start,
> > > but will probably add more later.
> > >
> > > We decided against the basement (yea!). We'll probably build some sort
> > > of concrete tornado room or something instead. Haven't given it much
> > > thought yet.
> > >
> > > The size is now probably 50x80.
> > >
> > > The idea is to get into the house as cheaply as possible up front, then
> > > have a lot of flexability and options to partition the space later. By
> > > doing it this way, we can pay cash for everything and add rooms or
> > > features as we have the money. No mortgage. And we would end up with
> > > an industrial loft type house with a lot of space and with our unusual
> > > requirements for a house.
> > >
> > > So I have a few new questions.
> > >
> > > First, instead of the basement I'm thinking we'll opt for an 18-20 foot
> > > eve height. The idea is that we'll have really high ceilings now, and
> > > add a free-standing second floor later inside the shell. I figure
> > > we'll start with some normal 1st floor type rooms, but make the
> > > ceilings in these rooms out of appropriate floor joists for a second
> > > floor, so like 2x6s or 2x8s, at the normal 8 or 9 feet off the ground.
> > > Later, I would just climb up there, put in a staircase, throw down some
> > > plywood, flooring, and whatever else to make a second floor. I think
> > > I'll have to treat these like load bearing walls. I can't transfer the
> > > weight of the second floor to the shell. So they'll have to be
> > > free-standing. Would I need a footer under the slab under all these
> > > walls? I'd like to have the freedom to rearrange the locations of the
> > > new walls after we've moved in. So maybe rebar in the slab instead of
> > > wire mesh or a thicker slab would make the footers under the interior
> > > walls unnecessary?
> > >
> > > What if I made a post and beam type structure, footers under the posts?
> > >
> > >
> > > I've seen these free-standing steel structures in industrial settings.
> > > Maybe that would be better? What about footers under those? Can you
> > > point me at someone who sells such things?
> > >
> > > The second question is assuming a mostly flat grade to start, how much
> > > can I expect the footer and slab to cost?
>