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Posted by brianlanning on October 5, 2006, 2:57 pm
dpb wrote:
> > So why, specifically, shouldn't I consider this?
>
> Well, you've been given quite a number of reasons, some of which may
> have no bearing (if you really never have need to sell the property,
> for example, then resale value obviously is not a consideration.
I didn't ask for reasons for or against a steel building, unless he
were to come back and tell me that the wood frame shell would be
cheaper. He says this, but I don't think he's right. Everything I've
seen says the opposite. Maybe he could point me to a modular builder
who could beat steel building prices? I really doubt a stick builder
could even come close.
>That,
> however, is certainly not the norm and at an age where you still have
> (apparently) quite young children, it would seem at least somewhat
> difficult to be able to determine that you won't possibly ever have to
> relocate).
What ever happened to people living in the same house for their entire
lives?
>Others, based on experience of what it takes to actually
> make the necessary modifications, contra-indicate that starting with a
> _commercial_ steel structure would be cost-effective.
What's the difference between comercial and residential construction?
(this is rhetorical, i know there's a pedantic answer) Am I not
allowed to use comercial type construction materials in a home?
And knowing whether something is cost-effective relies on knowing what
the final costs will be. And that requires a good picture of what the
final building will be. And I'm still trying to figure this out. He
may be making assumptions about the types of materials or types of
labor needed whereas I would do things like buy tile on clearance and
install it myself. So who knows what the final costs will be. I'm
just sort of guessing. But I think things like the well and septic
will be the same cost no matter what. So it would be nice to have a
better approximate price for things like that.
Another goal we have is to pay for this as we go without a mortgage or
construction loan. Without a mortgage payment, we should be able to
pull this off nicely. Instead of paying $3000 a month (plus $1000 a
month in taxes) to a bank, we could put that $4000 toward new features
in the house. A new bathroom here or a new window there. Whatever we
want. And at any moment, we own it and owe nothing. Even if after 5
or 10 years of work, it would have been cheaper to build the same thing
stick built from the start, I'd rather pay as we go. With the long
term cost savings from not having a mortgage, I think we would come out
way ahead.
> Again, however, if you (and your family who have to put up with the
> result) are willing to live in the type of environment you describe and
> through the inconvenience, nobody said you "can't". Suggesting
> alternatives is the same thing.
To me, there's a huge difference between "hey you could build this
building for bla% cheaper by using this method or these materials, go
to this website or call this company to hear about it" and "your
idea is terrible. I won't even consider it. mine is cheaper anyway.
use what I've been blindly using for the last 30 years"
> > What if I told you that I don't want closets in the children's
> > bedrooms? ...
>
> OTOH, have you asked the children what _they_ want? :(
Yes. They like the idea. They don't care about closets, they're more
interested in making the laundry situation easier and finding their
clothes. All of this leads to fewer chores for them. And believe me
they're totally on board with that.
By the way, there are millions of europeans who have bedrooms with no
closets.
> > What if I said we hate drywall and don't want it in our house?
>
> Don't see that has any bearing at all on the question of what the outer
> structure is--so what _do_ you want?
My point was that he was placing value judgements on a type of house
that I don't plan to build. Who knows? Maybe he was assuming that I
would drywall the entire interior of a steel building because that
would be "normal". My goal here isn't to turn a steel building into a
normal house. It's to create a unique house that fits our unique
needs. I made the what-if statements to demonstrate that we're clearly
not after a normal house.
> > No. I don't ever want to move again. ...
>
> But can you positively predict the future well enough to know you will
> never have to, want or no want? Seems only prudent to at least plan
> for such expediencies.
Why would I *have* to? I don't want to live like that. And why are
you assuming that no one would buy the house? You have no idea what
the end result will be. We're planning to do this on 5-10 acres. The
land will have value no matter what. With property values around here,
I doubt it will be long before the land is worth far more than what it
costs to put up the building.
> > I was sort of hoping for ideas and not judgement.
>
> Well, the general idea is and judgement of the group is what you're
> thinking isn't going to be nearly as cost-effective as you say you
> would like to believe.
I listed cost estimates, shoot them down. That was what I wanted from
the original post. Some things like plumbing and electrical are
impossible to estimate, but the well and septic, or the cost to erect
the buildings, those should be easy to figure out.
>Of course, again, if you're determined to live
> in a warehouse, build a warehouse.
Believe it or not, I'm not the first person to have this idea. If you
watch the home shows on tv, you'll see one of these every 5 to 10
episodes or so. One guy had a steel building in kentucky with
all-glass rollup garage doors. The outside looked like a warehouse,
but the inside looked like a nice house to me. Another one I saw was
about half garage to house his car collection, while they lived in the
other half. They had maybe 6000sqft. There were a few others. Some
were a little odd, but others were very nice places. And I think you
could make the outside look less warehousey with the right choice of
colors, good maintenance, and good landscaping.
I think you guys are constrained by an utter lack of imagination.
brian
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