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AC Register Discharge Temperature MLD 06-28-2007
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Posted by on June 29, 2007, 12:17 am


> >His posted temps pretty much tell you the load conditions.
> >And just what do you think the expanded data is going to tell this
> >homeowner?
> >
> >
> I assure you the condenser split will provide some information that may
> be helpful. He did not check the condenser split, I only view the unread
> posts & don't recall that he posted the head pressure(?) The Outdoor
> Ambient Temp (OAT) does not indicate the actual amount of load that the
> condenser is discharging, the condenser delta-T (Split) provides an
> indication of it.
> If he did the saturation temp on the gage would give a good indication
> of the split.
> Goodman Expanded Data tells me everything I need to know concerning
> whether the unit is delivering the mfg’ers specs.
> - udarrell

This guy is NOT a tech, therefore he doesn't know the "head pressure".

Likewise, he wouldn't know what to do with the Goodman Expanded Data (that's
*if* it's actually a Goodman).




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Posted by udarrell on June 29, 2007, 11:26 am
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

>
>
>>>His posted temps pretty much tell you the load conditions.
>>>And just what do you think the expanded data is going to tell this
>>>homeowner?
>>>
>>>
>>I assure you the condenser split will provide some information that may
>>be helpful. He did not check the condenser split, I only view the unread
>>posts & don't recall that he posted the head pressure(?) The Outdoor
>>Ambient Temp (OAT) does not indicate the actual amount of load that the
>>condenser is discharging, the condenser delta-T (Split) provides an
>>indication of it.
>>If he did the saturation temp on the gage would give a good indication
>>of the split.
>>Goodman Expanded Data tells me everything I need to know concerning
>>whether the unit is delivering the mfg’ers specs.
>>- udarrell
>>
>>
>
>This guy is NOT a tech, therefore he doesn't know the "head pressure".
>
>Likewise, he wouldn't know what to do with the Goodman Expanded Data (that's
>*if* it's actually a Goodman).
>
>
Well, as usual I agree with you kjpro, an HO wouldn't know how to use
the Expanded Data & wouldn't know the head pressure & corresponding
temperature.
Though they should be able to take the temp split of the condenser.
If it were drawing real hot air from a non conditioned source, an
incompetent tech would probably way overcharge the system trying to get
the suction line beer can cold & sweating. That would further reduce the
E-Coil split; a six (6) degree indoor split is pathetic. They need to
find & use a competent tech!
- udarrell

--
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http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.htm (Also, my AC Links.)

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Posted by MLD on July 1, 2007, 12:08 pm

> kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>>His posted temps pretty much tell you the load conditions.
> >>>And just what do you think the expanded data is going to tell this
> >>>homeowner?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I assure you the condenser split will provide some information that may
> >>be helpful. He did not check the condenser split, I only view the unread
> >>posts & don't recall that he posted the head pressure(?) The Outdoor
> >>Ambient Temp (OAT) does not indicate the actual amount of load that the
> >>condenser is discharging, the condenser delta-T (Split) provides an
> >>indication of it.
> >>If he did the saturation temp on the gage would give a good indication
> >>of the split.
> >>Goodman Expanded Data tells me everything I need to know concerning
> >>whether the unit is delivering the mfg’ers specs.
> >>- udarrell
> >>
> >>
> >
> >This guy is NOT a tech, therefore he doesn't know the "head pressure".
> >
> >Likewise, he wouldn't know what to do with the Goodman Expanded Data
(that's
> >*if* it's actually a Goodman).
> >
> >
> Well, as usual I agree with you kjpro, an HO wouldn't know how to use
> the Expanded Data & wouldn't know the head pressure & corresponding
> temperature.
> Though they should be able to take the temp split of the condenser.
> If it were drawing real hot air from a non conditioned source, an
> incompetent tech would probably way overcharge the system trying to get
> the suction line beer can cold & sweating. That would further reduce the
> E-Coil split; a six (6) degree indoor split is pathetic. They need to
> find & use a competent tech!
> - udarrell
>
Thanks to all the comments, I've got the answer that I was seeking, which
was to confirm that the Service Tech was passing Bullshit along with a Snow
Job. What is needed is a more competent Tech and the owner of the company
to know how his guy has performed in the field. As an aside, from your
perspective, it is a safe assumption that the average HO knows very little
about the mechanics of field troubleshooting, the nomencalture and data that
is required to resolve a proiblem. Fortunately (or unfortunately ) I went
through a year of hvac study, however, it was aimed at system design but did
not include any meaningful "hands on" work at the component level. I can
appreciate the training and experience needed to be proficient in
diagnosing, troubleshooting and solving a problem. I did that for years on
a product that cost about $2 million; one of its control components ran
around $50,000 each---shotgunning was not an option.
MLD






Posted by on June 28, 2007, 6:39 pm

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I have a Central AC system that's been around since '73. The air
> > > > > temperature coming out of the last register in line has
consistently
> > > been
> > > > > 54-56F year to year even with an OAT of 90F.. My daughter has a
new
> > > system
> > > > > and initially the register air temp was 70F. Service Tech says he
> > found
> > > a
> > > > > leak. Now, after the repair, the air temp doesn't get lower than
> 67F
> > > and
> > > > > the Tech says that's normal and everything is working OK. OAT is
in
> > the
> > > > > high 80's low 90's--Is she getting a line of bullshit??
> > > > > MLD
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You would normally get a minimum of 12-15 degree drop. It's all
going
> to
> > > > depend on a lot of data.
> > > >
> > > > So what's her temp differential?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Don't have the exact numbers but for a ballpark evaluation--Return Air
> > Temp
> > > (room temp)=73F with a register discharge=67F. That low a
differential
> (6
> > > deg ) would seem to indicate that the unit still is in trouble and
needs
> > > help.
> > > One possible explanation and it's a BIG reach-- is the fact that the
AC
> > air
> > > has to travel from basement to a second level and is being heated as
it
> > > makes its way up the line--It's not that long a run, however, and the
> > ducts
> > > that are visible are well insulated --no negative comment from the
> Service
> > > Tech as to this being a possible explanation. Using my own system as
> > > previously noted--return air temp=77F with a register air temp=56F.
> giving
> > a
> > > differential of 21F which seems consistent with a good working
system.
> > .She
> > > is dealing with the people that installed the system and based on this
> > > information do you think that she is being given a snow job when they
> tell
> > > her everything is working normally?
> > > MLD
> >
> >
> > Yes, she's getting a snow job.
> > Is it the air conditioners fault? Don't know, it could be a ducting
issue
> > (heat gain). Either way, it's not operating correctly!
> >
> > In order to get to the root of the problem you need to take measurements
> at
> > the furnace or air handler. Measure the inlet and discharge air as close
> to
> > the evaporator coils as possible and see if your differential is still 6
> > degrees. If so, this points you to the air conditioning system. If it's
> > 12-15 degrees, then this points you to the poorly designed ducting
system.
> > Another possibility is that the air handler is moving an extreme amount
of
> > air by the evaporator. Do you have the model numbers of the equipment.
> Lets
> > see if it's a matched system or something that's been cobbled together.
> >
> > It's best to get a second diagnosis from a service company that can
> actually
> > see and test this system. They should be able to diagnose the system
> rather
> > quickly after they gather all the required data.
> >
> >
> Your comments are extremely helpful and appreciated. Being on the East
> coast with the AC unit in the mid-west it's beyond my following through on
> your suggestions. However, based on your remarks it's time for the AC
> company to be brought back in to do a more professional diagnosis and
> troubleshooting job. Again--thanks for your input.
> MLD


Where in the mid-west?



Posted by MLD on June 28, 2007, 6:58 pm

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have a Central AC system that's been around since '73. The
air
> > > > > > temperature coming out of the last register in line has
> consistently
> > > > been
> > > > > > 54-56F year to year even with an OAT of 90F.. My daughter has a
> new
> > > > system
> > > > > > and initially the register air temp was 70F. Service Tech says
he
> > > found
> > > > a
> > > > > > leak. Now, after the repair, the air temp doesn't get lower
than
> > 67F
> > > > and
> > > > > > the Tech says that's normal and everything is working OK. OAT
is
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > high 80's low 90's--Is she getting a line of bullshit??
> > > > > > MLD
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You would normally get a minimum of 12-15 degree drop. It's all
> going
> > to
> > > > > depend on a lot of data.
> > > > >
> > > > > So what's her temp differential?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don't have the exact numbers but for a ballpark evaluation--Return
Air
> > > Temp
> > > > (room temp)=73F with a register discharge=67F. That low a
> differential
> > (6
> > > > deg ) would seem to indicate that the unit still is in trouble and
> needs
> > > > help.
> > > > One possible explanation and it's a BIG reach-- is the fact that the
> AC
> > > air
> > > > has to travel from basement to a second level and is being heated as
> it
> > > > makes its way up the line--It's not that long a run, however, and
the
> > > ducts
> > > > that are visible are well insulated --no negative comment from the
> > Service
> > > > Tech as to this being a possible explanation. Using my own system
as
> > > > previously noted--return air temp=77F with a register air temp=56F.
> > giving
> > > a
> > > > differential of 21F which seems consistent with a good working
> system.
> > > .She
> > > > is dealing with the people that installed the system and based on
this
> > > > information do you think that she is being given a snow job when
they
> > tell
> > > > her everything is working normally?
> > > > MLD
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, she's getting a snow job.
> > > Is it the air conditioners fault? Don't know, it could be a ducting
> issue
> > > (heat gain). Either way, it's not operating correctly!
> > >
> > > In order to get to the root of the problem you need to take
measurements
> > at
> > > the furnace or air handler. Measure the inlet and discharge air as
close
> > to
> > > the evaporator coils as possible and see if your differential is still
6
> > > degrees. If so, this points you to the air conditioning system. If
it's
> > > 12-15 degrees, then this points you to the poorly designed ducting
> system.
> > > Another possibility is that the air handler is moving an extreme
amount
> of
> > > air by the evaporator. Do you have the model numbers of the equipment.
> > Lets
> > > see if it's a matched system or something that's been cobbled
together.
> > >
> > > It's best to get a second diagnosis from a service company that can
> > actually
> > > see and test this system. They should be able to diagnose the system
> > rather
> > > quickly after they gather all the required data.
> > >
> > >
> > Your comments are extremely helpful and appreciated. Being on the East
> > coast with the AC unit in the mid-west it's beyond my following through
on
> > your suggestions. However, based on your remarks it's time for the AC
> > company to be brought back in to do a more professional diagnosis and
> > troubleshooting job. Again--thanks for your input.
> > MLD
>
>
> Where in the mid-west?
>
Cincinnati



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