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Posted by kool on August 28, 2008, 7:41 pm
> Dear Steve,
> Lets take a bit of a look at the situation. Since you're in Germany,
> does that mean you're exempt from the USA regulations about freon
> recovery,
> and disposal?
Do you have really have to ask that question? As far as I recall Germany is
not part of the USA. I'm sure they have their own regs. but he is trying to
build a system around some dole plate evaporators that are probably not full
of freon at the present time.
> Anyhow, we do need a bit more information to be helpful. Please see if
> the existing equipment has any technical specs. Name plate, that kind of
> thing. Do you know the temperature range of the equipment?
> As to producing -40 temps, that's going to provide some challenges. Not
> many refrigerants do that low temp. Zero F is doable, with 404a, but not
> sure about the lower temp.
Achieving -40 is done all the time with 404A or 507 or HP80 or 502 or 717 to
mention a few,with a single stage system.Colder temps than that usually
require a compound or cascade system.
Water cooled condensor is excellent idea, you
> have plenty of cold water to work with.
Of course it will be water cooled, I can't picture a big ass air cooled
condenser lashed to his deck!
> Lets get some more information.
exellent idea!!!
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
> I need to assemble a cold plate system for a marine freezer for the boat I
> am building. I have purchased 3 used cold plates aproximately 18" x 24" x
> 4"
> that appear to be in good condition. They all have evaporator valves with
> them. I am aware that I must change the medium inside the cold plates for
> the freezer application. I have no experience with refrigeration systems,
> so
> I will need a lot of help. The goal is to freeze down the plates once
> every
> 24 hours or more. The heat load will vary widely in this application. I
> will
> need an evaporation temperature around -40 for the medium I wish to use. I
> would like to also use a raw water cooled condensor for space reasons. I
> also want to mount the machinery in the engine space which is physically
> separated from the evaporators by about 20'. I need help in
> sizing/choosing
> the compressor, the accumulator and the refrigerant at least.. Should I
> use
> a controller, unique valving or other components that I have not
> mentioned?
> Could the system be designed to be self regulating? It would be better if
> I
> do the machinery installation, as I know the boat, but I will have the
> system professionally charged and tested. I know no one with this
> experience, so any advice is welcome. Effectively, I am looking for a
> reliable design.
> Thanks in advance,
> Steve
>
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Posted by on August 28, 2008, 7:52 pm
wrote:
>> Dear Steve,
>> Lets take a bit of a look at the situation. Since you're in Germany,
>> does that mean you're exempt from the USA regulations about freon
>> recovery,
>> and disposal?
>Do you have really have to ask that question? As far as I recall Germany is
>not part of the USA. I'm sure they have their own regs. but he is trying to
>build a system around some dole plate evaporators that are probably not full
>of freon at the present time.
>> Anyhow, we do need a bit more information to be helpful. Please see if
>> the existing equipment has any technical specs. Name plate, that kind of
>> thing. Do you know the temperature range of the equipment?
>> As to producing -40 temps, that's going to provide some challenges. Not
>> many refrigerants do that low temp. Zero F is doable, with 404a, but not
>> sure about the lower temp.
>Achieving -40 is done all the time with 404A or 507 or HP80 or 502 or 717 to
>mention a few,with a single stage system.Colder temps than that usually
>require a compound or cascade system.
>Water cooled condensor is excellent idea, you
>> have plenty of cold water to work with.
>Of course it will be water cooled, I can't picture a big ass air cooled
>condenser lashed to his deck!
>> Lets get some more information.
>exellent idea!!!
WTF is he going to do with it ? Stormy and the information,
that is.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm
|
|
Posted by kool on August 29, 2008, 11:47 am
> wrote:
>>> Dear Steve,
>>> Lets take a bit of a look at the situation. Since you're in Germany,
>>> does that mean you're exempt from the USA regulations about freon
>>> recovery,
>>> and disposal?
>>Do you have really have to ask that question? As far as I recall Germany
>>is
>>not part of the USA. I'm sure they have their own regs. but he is trying
>>to
>>build a system around some dole plate evaporators that are probably not
>>full
>>of freon at the present time.
>>> Anyhow, we do need a bit more information to be helpful. Please see
>>> if
>>> the existing equipment has any technical specs. Name plate, that kind
>>> of
>>> thing. Do you know the temperature range of the equipment?
>>> As to producing -40 temps, that's going to provide some challenges.
>>> Not
>>> many refrigerants do that low temp. Zero F is doable, with 404a, but not
>>> sure about the lower temp.
>>Achieving -40 is done all the time with 404A or 507 or HP80 or 502 or 717
>>to
>>mention a few,with a single stage system.Colder temps than that usually
>>require a compound or cascade system.
>>Water cooled condensor is excellent idea, you
>>> have plenty of cold water to work with.
>>Of course it will be water cooled, I can't picture a big ass air cooled
>>condenser lashed to his deck!
>>> Lets get some more information.
>>exellent idea!!!
> WTF is he going to do with it ? Stormy and the information,
> that is.
No condenser or evaporator fins to clean...he would beef hucked.
> --
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
> www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
> Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm
|
|
Posted by Steve Lusardi on August 30, 2008, 12:13 pm
Thank you all for your info. Yes, I am trying to use used cold plates and
they do have evaporator valves on them, but if I understand their method of
operation correctly, the same Freon must be on both sides of the diaphragm
to function properly, so it is unlikely that I will be able to use the ones
I have. I also understand that the boiling point of the gas in the
evaporator is primarily a function of the compressor's suction pressure, not
necessarily just the type of Freon alone. So when I choose the correct
valve(Freon), I will be also selecting the correct size orifice. Obviously I
have to size the compressor for not only the estimated flow rate of the 3
plates, but the optimum suction pressure as well to achieve the -40 number.
If I am lucky, the available space for the freezer is not much more than 20
cu. ft, so this is not a large system. I will make the effort to estimate
the heat load, but I think the 3 plates I have is sufficient. I have ordered
a book on freezer design and with that and a few component catalogues, it
will be a start. I do not underestimate the challenge, but it should be a
lot of fun to do.
Steve
>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Steve,
>>>> Lets take a bit of a look at the situation. Since you're in Germany,
>>>> does that mean you're exempt from the USA regulations about freon
>>>> recovery,
>>>> and disposal?
>>>Do you have really have to ask that question? As far as I recall Germany
>>>is
>>>not part of the USA. I'm sure they have their own regs. but he is trying
>>>to
>>>build a system around some dole plate evaporators that are probably not
>>>full
>>>of freon at the present time.
>>>> Anyhow, we do need a bit more information to be helpful. Please see
>>>> if
>>>> the existing equipment has any technical specs. Name plate, that kind
>>>> of
>>>> thing. Do you know the temperature range of the equipment?
>>>> As to producing -40 temps, that's going to provide some challenges.
>>>> Not
>>>> many refrigerants do that low temp. Zero F is doable, with 404a, but
>>>> not
>>>> sure about the lower temp.
>>>Achieving -40 is done all the time with 404A or 507 or HP80 or 502 or 717
>>>to
>>>mention a few,with a single stage system.Colder temps than that usually
>>>require a compound or cascade system.
>>>Water cooled condensor is excellent idea, you
>>>> have plenty of cold water to work with.
>>>Of course it will be water cooled, I can't picture a big ass air cooled
>>>condenser lashed to his deck!
>>>> Lets get some more information.
>>>exellent idea!!!
>> WTF is he going to do with it ? Stormy and the information,
>> that is.
> No condenser or evaporator fins to clean...he would beef hucked.
>> --
>> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>> www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
>> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
>> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
>> Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
>> Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm
>
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Posted by kool on August 27, 2008, 7:42 pm
>I need to assemble a cold plate system for a marine freezer for the boat I
>am building. I have purchased 3 used cold plates aproximately 18" x 24" x
>4" that appear to be in good condition. They all have evaporator valves
>with them. I am aware that I must change the medium inside the cold plates
>for the freezer application. I have no experience with refrigeration
>systems, so I will need a lot of help. The goal is to freeze down the
>plates once every 24 hours or more. The heat load will vary widely in this
>application. I will need an evaporation temperature around -40 for the
>medium I wish to use. I would like to also use a raw water cooled condensor
>for space reasons. I also want to mount the machinery in the engine space
>which is physically separated from the evaporators by about 20'. I need
>help in sizing/choosing the compressor, the accumulator and the refrigerant
>at least.. Should I use a controller, unique valving or other components
>that I have not mentioned? Could the system be designed to be self
>regulating? It would be better if I do the machinery installation, as I
>know the boat, but I will have the system professionally charged and
>tested. I know no one with this experience, so any advice is welcome.
>Effectively, I am looking for a reliable design.
> Thanks in advance,
> Steve
The plates you have sound like "DOLE" plates with holdover fluid and seem
pretty small for a freezer on a commercial fishing boat. Basing your system
to match some plates that you got is not a good start to sizing your
equipment. Start with the size of the hold and the pounds of fish at a
certain temperature(water temp) and the length of time you need to bring
them down to -40 C.or F.
A Carlyle (Carrier) O5G or O5K is quite capable of achieving this
temperature using R 404 or 507 if sized to match the condenser (cupro-nickel
or titanium) and the hold is well insulated with aluminium plates such as
these.
www.gunthela.com/catalogue.html You are going to need help with this
project.
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> Lets take a bit of a look at the situation. Since you're in Germany,
> does that mean you're exempt from the USA regulations about freon
> recovery,
> and disposal?