Air in pex water line

Posted by Gary on March 18, 2009, 11:36 pm

: quoted-printable

I installed 4 grohe thermostatic valves today with volume control =
valves. 3 showers and one tub. I ran water to them and found that two of =
them would hammer when turning off the volume valve. Because I used pex =
I can see that there is air in the lines. I have let them run for about =
20 minutes but the air doesn't want to come out. I can't see it when the =
water is flowing, but when I turn the water off I get the hammer noise =
and then the air appears and it looks like it comes out of the valve =
into the pex.

Will this air come out of the water line with use? Or is there something =
I should do? I would like to make sure that my pipes wont be hammering =
once I have my drywall installed.

Thx
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<DIV>I installed 4 grohe thermostatic valves today with volume control =

valves. 3=20
showers and one tub. I ran water to them and found that two of them =
would hammer=20
when turning off the volume valve. Because I used pex I can see that =
there is=20
air in the lines. I have let them run for about 20 minutes but the air =
doesn't=20
want to come out. I can't see it when the water is flowing, but when I =
turn the=20
water off I get the hammer noise and then the air appears and it looks =
like it=20

comes out of the valve into the pex.<BR><BR>Will this air come out of =

the water=20
line with use? Or is there something I should do? I would like to make =
sure that=20

my pipes wont be hammering once I have my drywall installed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>

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Posted by Don Ocean on March 19, 2009, 1:04 am

Gary wrote:

> I installed 4 grohe thermostatic valves today with volume control
> valves. 3 showers and one tub. I ran water to them and found that two of
> them would hammer when turning off the volume valve. Because I used pex
> I can see that there is air in the lines. I have let them run for about
> 20 minutes but the air doesn't want to come out. I can't see it when the
> water is flowing, but when I turn the water off I get the hammer noise
> and then the air appears and it looks like it comes out of the valve
> into the pex.
>
> Will this air come out of the water line with use? Or is there something
> I should do? I would like to make sure that my pipes wont be hammering
> once I have my drywall installed.
>
> Thx

They make PEX in clear Material that you can see through? I have not
seen that before. As for the water hammer , just install air containing
Hammer chambers above each faucet, valve or whatever. The compression of
the air in those chambers will remove the hammer. Or you can purchase
units that do the same thing only with a bladder etc. The PEX we use for
hydronic heat must be a bit different in material then yours. Ours comes
in Red or blue colors and is rated for potable water.

Posted by Gary on March 19, 2009, 5:27 am

> Gary wrote:

>> I installed 4 grohe thermostatic valves today with volume control valves.
>> 3 showers and one tub. I ran water to them and found that two of them
>> would hammer when turning off the volume valve. Because I used pex I can
>> see that there is air in the lines. I have let them run for about 20
>> minutes but the air doesn't want to come out. I can't see it when the
>> water is flowing, but when I turn the water off I get the hammer noise
>> and then the air appears and it looks like it comes out of the valve into
>> the pex.
>> Will this air come out of the water line with use? Or is there something
>> I should do? I would like to make sure that my pipes wont be hammering
>> once I have my drywall installed.
>> Thx

> They make PEX in clear Material that you can see through? I have not seen
> that before. As for the water hammer , just install air containing
> Hammer chambers above each faucet, valve or whatever. The compression of
> the air in those chambers will remove the hammer. Or you can purchase
> units that do the same thing only with a bladder etc. The PEX we use for
> hydronic heat must be a bit different in material then yours. Ours comes
> in Red or blue colors and is rated for potable water.

The Colored Pex here is heatpex (red) and you can use it for potable water
but it is twice as expensive as the regular stuff. Our domestic water pex
comes in white and clear.

I just tested my pressure and it is at 85psi. Could that be causing the
hammering?

Posted by Lefty on March 19, 2009, 6:26 am

> The Colored Pex here is heatpex (red) and you can use it for potable water
> but it is twice as expensive as the regular stuff. Our domestic water
> pex comes in white and clear.
> I just tested my pressure and it is at 85psi. Could that be causing the
> hammering?

IMO, that white PEX is some cheap stuff.

To answer your question though;

1.) The air would *have* to work it's way out of the system, because there
really is'nt any upstream of your work zone. However, water hammer will
still occur if the conditions are right. I would be worried about your PEX
connections, depending on which method you used, especially with that crappy
white PEX. Ironicly, PEX itself is supposed to reduce water hammer due to
is flex properties.

2.) 85 psi is about twice as much as your really need. If you are on a
rural water set-up, then you really should already have a pressure reducer
in place. If not, I would get one and cut the pressure back to around 50
psi unless you have something that really needs the higher pressure.
Pressures above 80 are hell on toilet innards, humid float valves and other
self-regulating valves. Also 85psi will jack-up your bills unnecesarily.
Some of us pay dearly for water, others get it cheap and don't really care.

3.) If there is a check valve on the main somewhere (at the main line
entrance or at the meter-set) then you should have an expanded water tank
for the hot water heater. Maybe yours has gone bad, or just has'nt been
installed yet (new construction)? Even if one is not requiered, you may
want to add it because they act as an excellent water cushion which should
solve your problem without buying other complex mechanical hammer arresters.
Don't bother trying to make them up yourself out of fittings either. Those
have been proven to just add air to the lines for a week or so until the air
is consumed, then they do nothing at all.

Posted by Gary on March 19, 2009, 1:43 pm

>> The Colored Pex here is heatpex (red) and you can use it for potable
>> water but it is twice as expensive as the regular stuff. Our domestic
>> water pex comes in white and clear.
>> I just tested my pressure and it is at 85psi. Could that be causing the
>> hammering?

> IMO, that white PEX is some cheap stuff.
> To answer your question though;
> 1.) The air would *have* to work it's way out of the system, because
> there really is'nt any upstream of your work zone. However, water hammer
> will still occur if the conditions are right. I would be worried about
> your PEX connections, depending on which method you used, especially with
> that crappy white PEX. Ironicly, PEX itself is supposed to reduce water
> hammer due to is flex properties.
> 2.) 85 psi is about twice as much as your really need. If you are on a
> rural water set-up, then you really should already have a pressure reducer
> in place. If not, I would get one and cut the pressure back to around 50
> psi unless you have something that really needs the higher pressure.
> Pressures above 80 are hell on toilet innards, humid float valves and
> other self-regulating valves. Also 85psi will jack-up your bills
> unnecesarily. Some of us pay dearly for water, others get it cheap and
> don't really care.
> 3.) If there is a check valve on the main somewhere (at the main line
> entrance or at the meter-set) then you should have an expanded water tank
> for the hot water heater. Maybe yours has gone bad, or just has'nt been
> installed yet (new construction)? Even if one is not requiered, you may
> want to add it because they act as an excellent water cushion which should
> solve your problem without buying other complex mechanical hammer
> arresters. Don't bother trying to make them up yourself out of fittings
> either. Those have been proven to just add air to the lines for a week or
> so until the air is consumed, then they do nothing at all.

Thx for the info. Yes I will add a pressure reducer and a diaphragm. I
thought about making a hammer arrester, I have seen sites that say to just
make a 12" vertical pipe above each line in the area where you are having
the problem. No check valve, new construction, just connected water to
test - no meter yet - connected the HWT too to try it out.

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