Can you please help with my homework?

Of course that will happen when we get to that point.We will get at least 3
quotes but I won't waste there estimators and design engineers time doing
all of the preliminary ground work. I want to compare apples to apples with
the quotes, not get three coflicting ways of completing the job.

Posted by on July 22, 2007, 5:33 pm

wrote:

> I have been asked to arrange a quote to cool only an existing building

>(arena with bowl type seating) for summer use as now the conditions are

>unbearable during events.

>I am thinking that 4 BIG units might be the way to go,one in each corner,

>probably splits.

>I can't seem to find a design condition chart from ashrae or anyone else on

>google. It is a fairly moderate year round climate here, from memory I think

>we're talking around 80f summer but it hit the mid 90's two days ago.Just

>the people load would be 125 tons and 45,000 cfm o/air required..As this

>will be a major financial investment, I need to do it right the first time

>and any input on design considerations would be appreciated. Thanks.

>Victoria B.C.

> Indoor Conditions;24 C/75 F @ 50% RH

>Design Conditions; ?

> Occupancy load; 3000x500=1,500,000 btu

Having looked at some numbers, I suggest that per/person might
be very much on the low side. Unless it's a classical music concert
or opera, where people sit and nap, it's very low. If it's a rock
concert, or a hockey game, it's not only very low ( like by half ),
but it will also vary over the time period of the event ( as people
start jumping up and down in the second half, etc ).

Of course, the OA required per/person is a whole 'nuther
issue, too.

> Square footage;280'x165'= 46,200

> Cubic footage; 280'x165'= 46,200x48=2,217,600

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Posted by kool on July 23, 2007, 6:23 pm

> wrote:

>> I have been asked to arrange a quote to cool only an existing building

>>(arena with bowl type seating) for summer use as now the conditions are

>>unbearable during events.

>>I am thinking that 4 BIG units might be the way to go,one in each corner,

>>probably splits.

>>I can't seem to find a design condition chart from ashrae or anyone else

>>on

>>google. It is a fairly moderate year round climate here, from memory I

>>think

>>we're talking around 80f summer but it hit the mid 90's two days ago.Just

>>the people load would be 125 tons and 45,000 cfm o/air required..As this

>>will be a major financial investment, I need to do it right the first time

>>and any input on design considerations would be appreciated. Thanks.

>>Victoria B.C.

>> Indoor Conditions;24 C/75 F @ 50% RH

>>Design Conditions; ?

>> Occupancy load; 3000x500=1,500,000 btu

> Having looked at some numbers, I suggest that per/person might

> be very much on the low side. Unless it's a classical music concert

> or opera, where people sit and nap, it's very low. If it's a rock

> concert, or a hockey game, it's not only very low ( like by half ),

> but it will also vary over the time period of the event ( as people

> start jumping up and down in the second half, etc ).

The btu/person will vary from sitting(300) to dancing(900) and some will be
female (x.85) or kids(x.75) to the twenty or so that are actually playing
the game (1400) (lacrosse or ball hockey or whatever, ice hockey is not a
problem as cooling is not required when the ice is in).So I guesstimated 500
btu/person as an average, which may be on the low side. Probably about 50%
sensible and 50% latent.

> Of course, the OA required per/person is a whole 'nuther

> issue, too.

One source said about 15cfm/person o/a is required(3000x15=45,000) but the
existing equipment only supplies less than 20,000 running flat out. How did
the original engineers get away with that one?

>> Square footage;280'x165'= 46,200

>> Cubic footage; 280'x165'= 46,200x48=2,217,600

> --

> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'

> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's

> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Posted by on July 22, 2007, 6:13 pm

Here's a pre-cooling thought

3,000 auditorium seats @ 50 lbs = 150,000 lb of internal thermal mass

at 1 btu / lb / Degree F, allow ramp from 70 F -> 80 F = 125 tons
total storage ( 150,000 * 10 / 12,000 )

@ 5 F / lb / hour = 2 hours of 62.5 tons capacity

62 tons / hour for two hours, applied exactly during your peak load
period, is non-trivial compared to your suggested occupancy load of
125 ton.

And that's just the seats :-)

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Posted by kool on July 23, 2007, 6:28 pm

> Here's a pre-cooling thought

> 3,000 auditorium seats @ 50 lbs = 150,000 lb of internal thermal mass

> at 1 btu / lb / Degree F, allow ramp from 70 F -> 80 F = 125 tons

> total storage ( 150,000 * 10 / 12,000 )

x sp.ht. of chair??

> @ 5 F / lb / hour = 2 hours of 62.5 tons capacity

> 62 tons / hour for two hours, applied exactly during your peak load

> period, is non-trivial compared to your suggested occupancy load of

> 125 ton.

> And that's just the seats :-)

Add in several tons of steel, concrete and glass!
actually there are only 2500 seats plus 500 standing room.