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Carrier variable speed motor, duct transitions - any problems?

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Carrier variable speed motor, duct transitions - any problems? Todd H. 09-14-2006
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Posted by on September 16, 2006, 11:41 am
Jake wrote:


>
>Really... and what do you do when you find it's the motor or the driver?
>I'm curious?
>

well my one and only experience was to remove the defective
electronics from the end of the motor and get a new one under
warranty. It was a piece of cake to remove & reinstall.

>
>A VFD is an inverter... not a chopper. It's capable of running the motor
>faster than the line frequency... something a chopper cannot do. It's
>also capable for delivering more torque, and ramping the motor... under
>control.. up and down. Something a chopper cannot do.

In a vfd, isnt the waveform chopped before its inverted?



>I know that many HVAC techs I've run into... particularly in the resi
>trade... have little skills about discrete controls in general and even
>less about something as advanced as analog. Granted, that's in my little
>corner of the World here but I suspect factory training is the same
>throughout the country.
>

Jake, every single vendor I have offers training, alot of it free.
Equipment vendors regularily have classes on their products.

A local trade organization is sponsoring free Nate training leading to
certification. Classes are booked solid

One major manufacturer I know of offers factory training online to
techs thru participating contractors.

The Utility Co's offer free training, on every imaginable topic.
http://www.socalgas.com/construction/freeresources.shtml


>Building these controls onto a easy-replace motor that the customer will
>be forced to pay exorbitant rates to replace is a scheme. It makes
>ill-trained techs have a easy answer... and it makes the likes of
>GE-Regal/Beloit a lot of money.

your problem is you're a professional in your trade, but not
necessarily a professional at making money, and therefore resent?
those that are. alot of us suffer from that syndrome. it infuriates
me to pay the exorbant prices for most carrier parts, but the customer
pays for everything, right?

>
>I'm not fooled.
>
easily.

>Jake


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Posted by Jake on September 16, 2006, 9:10 pm
gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
> Jake wrote:
>
>
>> Really... and what do you do when you find it's the motor or the driver?
>> I'm curious?
>>
>
> well my one and only experience was to remove the defective
> electronics from the end of the motor and get a new one under
> warranty. It was a piece of cake to remove & reinstall.

What would that service call have cost a consumer... just curious?

>
>> A VFD is an inverter... not a chopper. It's capable of running the motor
>> faster than the line frequency... something a chopper cannot do. It's
>> also capable for delivering more torque, and ramping the motor... under
>> control.. up and down. Something a chopper cannot do.
>
> In a vfd, isnt the waveform chopped before its inverted?

Actually, the sequence usually is that the AC is rectified to DC and
held via a cap bank on a bus. The Inverter then changes the DC back to
AC by firing it into a AC waveform at very specific rates. Newer drives
produce something very close to a true sine wave. >

> Jake, every single vendor I have offers training, alot of it free.
> Equipment vendors regularily have classes on their products.

How many REQUIRE training, though... and how many contractors take
advantage of free training in the HVAC field for resi. equipment?

>> Building these controls onto a easy-replace motor that the customer will
>> be forced to pay exorbitant rates to replace is a scheme. It makes
>> ill-trained techs have a easy answer... and it makes the likes of
>> GE-Regal/Beloit a lot of money.
>
> your problem is you're a professional in your trade, but not
> necessarily a professional at making money, and therefore resent?
> those that are. alot of us suffer from that syndrome. it infuriates
> me to pay the exorbant prices for most carrier parts, but the customer
> pays for everything, right?

Fish... this kind of "the customer pays for everything" attitude is
what's driving manufacturing offshore and leaving us with only cheap,
disposable products that we throw away at regular intervals.

No, I'm not a pro at making money... but I've done very well for myself
and for my employees and their families. I don't have 4 homes in
different states, but I sleep well at night knowing that my company, my
vendors, and my customers all got good value for their dollar at the end
of the day.

Carrier (and other OEM's) charge a lot of money for their parts because
of attitudes just like yours.. that "the customer pays for everything".

Well, one of these days (coming soon to a town near you), the customer
will no longer be able to afford it and will be buying $100.00 window
shakers at Wal-Mart and heating their homes with wood stoves.

When that happens, the 'money professionals' will be out of business and
the people who provide a real service, for a fair price... will still exist.

Jake


Posted by on September 16, 2006, 10:02 pm
Jake wrote:


>
>What would that service call have cost a consumer... just curious?
>

personally I dunno. maybe Bob P will chime in with his FR price.
I usually include a 5 or 10 yr p&l warranty with any install, so its a
moot issue.

>
>> Jake, every single vendor I have offers training, alot of it free.
>> Equipment vendors regularily have classes on their products.
>
>How many REQUIRE training, though... and how many contractors take
>advantage of free training in the HVAC field for resi. equipment?
>

Major US equipment vendors are moving in the direction of requiring
their resi dealers to employ Nate certified techs, to the tune of at
least 50% of the tech & installer work force. Its happening today
Jake.

Remember, the whole industry had to be retrained for 13 seer, not to
mention 410a.


>
>Fish... this kind of "the customer pays for everything" attitude is
>what's driving manufacturing offshore and leaving us with only cheap,
>disposable products that we throw away at regular intervals.


get real Jake. carrier and a whole slew of others are in china
because thats where future profits are at. billions as I understand
it. with cheap labor, profits are even greater.

we live in a disposable society only because our labor (to repair)
exceeds any other countries combined manufacturing & shipping
costs....

some people are in business to service peoples needs, some businesses
are in business to make money.

ever notice how high on the hog charitable organizations live?

Posted by Zephyr on September 17, 2006, 8:29 pm
NATE / RSES are the next 'required' training. Electrician's in Kalifornia
are REQUIRED to hire only "certified" technicians. Air Conditioning will be
next I imagine.

--
Zyp



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