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Posted by ard[H20] on June 1, 2007, 1:24 pm
>>
>> >> >> Ben wrote:
>> >> /cut
>> >> >> > So what if I did want what you call a 'freebie' ? Or, what if I just
>> >> >> > wanted to have a better understanding so that
>> >> >> > I wouldn't need to take the word of a disreputable repair person,
>> >> >> > which I have seen plenty of
>>
>> >> >> Ben over- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >> >My last post....
>> >> >I find it it very interesting there seem to be so many frustrated
>> >> >people adding to this forum. Why are you even answering at all? If
>> >> >you are so fed up with answering what you think are stupid questions,
>> >> >don't answer. One day you will need someone elses advice, auto
>> >> >mechanic, Lawyer, Dr. I don't care. I only hope they respond to you
>> >> >in the same professional and curteous manner.
>>
>> >> Ben, you are very correct, one day more than one of these hacks will
>> >> need the aid of Professionals. Some who are no longer with this Group
>> >> have already discovered that truth.
>>
>> >> Your query is valid, sift through the responses if you have time to
>> >> waste, however your best option is to do some smart investigating
>> >> yourself. Too many of the hacks here collect a hundred bucks for
>> >> merely trimming the hedge around your outdoor unit, for instance.
>> >> Check:
>> >> #Fans are all turning with correct rotation and are at speed.
>> >> #Check for obstructions in ductwork adjacent registers and at the
>> >> indoor coil/head.
>> >> Places obstructions could impact are at "filters/ "dampers"/"splitter
>> >> boxes"/access panels and drains.
>> >> I use quotations so you can go check on the NET for what these devices
>> >> actually look like.
>> >> You are looking for any breakdown of the enclosed air space which
>> >> feeds each outlet. This includes "illegal" openings and squashed or
>> >> collapsed duct, busted drains. Look carefully, I have heard squirrels
>> >> have strange mating habits<g>
>> >> Check _both_ systems at this level. You can then compare "apples with
>> >> apples" relatively.
>>
>> >> #Next, get two $2.00 alcohol thermometer from the local Walmart.
>> >> Prepare a glass of ice and fill it with water and stir. When the glass
>> >> is sweating externally drop the thermometers in it and stir. Wait
>> >> maybe 1 minute and check the reading on the thermometer. They should
>> >> be close to 32°F/0°C. Note any difference as a factor for later
>> >> calculation.
>> >> Now, find two testing points either side of the indoor coil/head.
>> >> "Air in" and "Air out", basically. Adjust the unit so that the fan
>> >> speed is around "medium" and take the two readings.
>> >> You should allow some two to three minutes for that operation.
>> >> Compare the readings and get a figure as a differential (deltaT).
>> >> Do the same on the other unit.
>> >> Should all be working well and the installed design be reasonable (in
>> >> line with the load) both differentials should be within a degree or so
>> >> of each other.
>> >> The actual number depends on a number of factors , typically you could
>> >> expect maybe 18°deltaT using Fahrenheit scale, 10°deltaT using the
>> >> Celsius scale. IF the numbers are well apart in likeness or _neither_
>> >> falls within that ballpark range of deltaT, then, you do have a
>> >> problem.
>>
>> >> #Next, take a sheet (canvas preferably or cardboard) and design it to
>> >> fit the inlet side of your coil/head so it covers the entire inlet
>> >> face of the coil/head. Do I have to say the unit has to be "0ff" while
>> >> you set this up?
>> >> Once you have something that works as a "block", quickly.. remove it.
>> >> Start the unit and allow it to run until you can see the first row of
>> >> headers begin to "sweat". Apply your "block" now.
>> >> Within maybe two minutes the whole of the coil should be saturated and
>> >> all headers sweating, some may even begin to form a hard ice/frost.
>> >> If the whole of the headers are equally covered in sweat then you can
>> >> be reasonably certain there is no refrigeration problem of any great
>> >> magnitude.
>> >> Do _NOT_ fall asleep whilst doing this..or go answer the phone.
>> >> You _must_ be in attendance for the whole of the test.
>> >> Once the return pipe to the outdoor unit starts to sweat vigourously
>> >> you have to remove the block, and this is where the original design is
>> >> important, do not turn the unit "0ff" to remove the block. The unit
>> >> must be allowed to run to "clear" the coil/head.
>>
>> >> #When the indoor coil test has not met the conditions described you
>> >> best get outside and do another general check around the outdoor unit.
>> >> Look for any dust impregnated oil stains on pipework and make sure the
>> >> fan and outdoor coil are not blocked with debris.
>> >> Nothing obvious? Call your competent HVAC&R guy and let him run. Do
>> >> not make the mistake of saying "I checked this and looked at that".
>> >> One, you will maybe sidetrack his process of analysis, thereby doing
>> >> yourself a disservice in the checkbook. Two,at worst you could have
>> >> one of the hacks from here and thus "piss him off", bigTime<weg>
>>
>> >> Any information you discover could help you later so make sure you
>> >> record readings and observations. Field guys do this all the time so
>> >> as to build up a knowledge base. You could learn by following that
>> >> attribute of the Trade.
>>
>> >> Whatever you find do not bother returning with a post saying "I found
>> >> this, what now". I have no problem helping with what you originally
>> >> asked, however I am a Professional (ret), therefore I can respect the
>> >> need for the Industry to have its quaint ways.
>> >> Besides, you have probably have had enough of the pranks these guys
>> >> pull, on line.. if you are a genuine self helper.
>> >> Thank you for your post. I did find it refreshing, in this place :)
>>
>> >> have fun :-)
>>
>> >> ICE
>>
>>
>> >What a load of crap.
>>
>> ahh.. one hack/lamer that just had to have a bite :-!
>>
>> Difficult to comprehend having your self anointed MD status
>> challenged, yes snookums :-/
>
>From a self proclaimed troll. LOL.
>
> If you'd do everything you suggested to the OP when you went on a
>call like that, then you probably don't own a set of gauges. First
>thing I'd do is check superheat and subcool, cause odds would be in
>favor of the thing being low on refrigerant. Regardless of that, your
>conclusions and methods were just plain incorrect. You're not only a
>troll, by your own admission, but you're giving out incorrect advice
>and that can be more than an irritation to any homeowner who
>accidentally takes it seriously. Hvac systems can be deadly to the
>untrained.
>
You do not post crap. You post as a newbie(trade).
Stormin - over there in the corner - will be smiling and thinking "oh
doody, me got a fwend".
You are the one attempting to troll, and poorly I would add.
All of my post was built for the Home Owner as a generic process to
carry out prior to making a call __IF the call is needed__.
You, like many Hacks, have a problem with that (advice). I find no
fault in that, merely laugh at your insecurity.
Making the statement "your conclusions and methods were just plain
incorrect" just does not cut it, Pal. You will have to put your finger
on exactly that which you believe is "incorrect advice". anything else
is just Bluster and Bullshit, of which there is Plenty in this NG.
FYI - there was a time when I myself was well able to use the six
senses and a clamp/tong meter to sort _any_ problem in the vapor
compression cycle for units under 20ton. For systems beyond that a
sling physchrometer and maybe an anemometer could be added for
distribution diagnostics.
It is known as "non invasive diagnostics". Practiced adeptly there is
no problem achieving a positive result for the client. You have yet to
get to that level of competence, I see :-]
You hang as much "crap"[sic] on my advice as you like, you will not
change the Facts nor the results for those who _choose_ to use it.
As an observation.
Thank pHuck you (and those like you who claim MD status) are _not_ a
practising clinician, otherwise we would _all_ be wearing Nappies from
the overly enthusiastic reaming of the ass in investigating _why_ we
had a headache.
And please do fix that POS you are using to post with. Not only is it
borking the thread, it is also attributing statements to my posting I
did not make.
I have fixed it this time, do it again and I _will_ kick your butt.
0K :->
ICE
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