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Posted by Bubba on November 25, 2006, 9:56 pm
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>> His problem is that its a heat pump and he shouldnt be messing with
>> that many wires. Most homeowners cant figure out more than about 4
>> wires. Especially when different manufactures use different terminal
>> designations for the same terminal. X, C, B and a host of others are
>> all the same terminal. He will understand though after he lets the
>> smoke out.
>> Bubba
>OK Bubba... now you've got me puzzled. I know one of our older
>buildings... 1987 I think... has a Trane very similar to this. Two stage
>electric backup pack.
>Aren't W2 and E two different things in that scenario... and doesn't
>this unit (like a lot of them) call for the fan when backup is active?
They are diff and they are not. How's that for clear?
Y is usually the first stage of heat (the A/C working in reverse)
The second stage is the electric back up strip heat. Most resi stuff
usually brings that on all at once.
W2 is electric heat and E is emergency heat (which is usually the same
backup electric strip heat). Most resi chit doesnt get staged either
because of lazy installers or the extra dollars to stage the heat with
outdoor stats.
Not sure if that helps or I just confused you more?
Bubba
show/hide quoted text
>We had a Carrier Commercial stat do this same exact thing on a unit...
>the contractor screwed with it forever and then one afternoon I got my
>meter out and started diagnosing things.
Sorry. Personally I think those Carrier commercial stats are a big
waste of time and money. You ever looked at the manual? Takes about a
week to read it all.
Bubba
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>First thing wrong was that the Day of Week was programmed wrong... thus
>the setpoints would run the program incorrectly. Next was that the stat
>called for fan all the time for some reason I can't remember now...
>except that it had to do with 2nd stage heat vs. E. As I remember,
>removing a jumper took care of it.
>Jake
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Posted by Jake on November 25, 2006, 10:27 pm
> They are diff and they are not. How's that for clear?
> Y is usually the first stage of heat (the A/C working in reverse)
> The second stage is the electric back up strip heat. Most resi stuff
> usually brings that on all at once.
So in the Trane system I saw... Y brings on the compressor... I can't
remember which way the RV went in that scenario... I think it was
energize on cool... O.
show/hide quoted text
> W2 is electric heat and E is emergency heat (which is usually the same
> backup electric strip heat). Most resi chit doesnt get staged either
> because of lazy installers or the extra dollars to stage the heat with
> outdoor stats.
> Not sure if that helps or I just confused you more?
> Bubba
I've done a couple of my 'goodwill' calls where they weren't staged and
the sequencers quit... breaker trips. Carriers...
Anyhow, I think the Honeywell stuff will stage via set indoor
differential between SP, Stage 2 and E. Stage 2 may bring on 15 kW...
and E may bring on another 15 kW... that's what I'm remembering...
show/hide quoted text
>> We had a Carrier Commercial stat do this same exact thing on a unit...
>> the contractor screwed with it forever and then one afternoon I got my
>> meter out and started diagnosing things.
> Sorry. Personally I think those Carrier commercial stats are a big
> waste of time and money. You ever looked at the manual? Takes about a
> week to read it all.
> Bubba
>
I have a manual... as a matter of fact... I have several... and I have
to dig them out every time I need to set two of these things for the
infamous "Holiday" mode. Here in Indiana... this last time... I just set
the "Override" to 40. Boy, the guys in the mechanics shop will be pissed
come Monday )-;.
Jake
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Posted by Bubba on November 26, 2006, 9:02 am
show/hide quoted text
> > They are diff and they are not. How's that for clear?
>> Y is usually the first stage of heat (the A/C working in reverse)
>> The second stage is the electric back up strip heat. Most resi stuff
>> usually brings that on all at once.
>So in the Trane system I saw... Y brings on the compressor... I can't
>remember which way the RV went in that scenario... I think it was
>energize on cool... O.
>> W2 is electric heat and E is emergency heat (which is usually the same
>> backup electric strip heat). Most resi chit doesnt get staged either
>> because of lazy installers or the extra dollars to stage the heat with
>> outdoor stats.
>> Not sure if that helps or I just confused you more?
>> Bubba
>I've done a couple of my 'goodwill' calls where they weren't staged and
>the sequencers quit... breaker trips. Carriers...
>Anyhow, I think the Honeywell stuff will stage via set indoor
>differential between SP, Stage 2 and E. Stage 2 may bring on 15 kW...
>and E may bring on another 15 kW... that's what I'm remembering...
Probably an important point I see I forgot is that if you dont jumper
E to w2 or have a separate connection for the E terminal (emergency
heat) you will most likely find that you have cold air coming from
your registers during the defrost mode.
Bubba
show/hide quoted text
>>> We had a Carrier Commercial stat do this same exact thing on a unit...
>>> the contractor screwed with it forever and then one afternoon I got my
>>> meter out and started diagnosing things.
>> Sorry. Personally I think those Carrier commercial stats are a big
>> waste of time and money. You ever looked at the manual? Takes about a
>> week to read it all.
>> Bubba
>>
>I have a manual... as a matter of fact... I have several... and I have
>to dig them out every time I need to set two of these things for the
>infamous "Holiday" mode. Here in Indiana... this last time... I just set
>the "Override" to 40. Boy, the guys in the mechanics shop will be pissed
>come Monday )-;.
>Jake
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Posted by PrecisionMachinisT on November 28, 2006, 4:08 am
> > > They are diff and they are not. How's that for clear?
> >> Y is usually the first stage of heat (the A/C working in reverse)
> >> The second stage is the electric back up strip heat. Most resi stuff
> >> usually brings that on all at once.
> >So in the Trane system I saw... Y brings on the compressor... I can't
> >remember which way the RV went in that scenario... I think it was
> >energize on cool... O.
> >> W2 is electric heat and E is emergency heat (which is usually the same
> >> backup electric strip heat). Most resi chit doesnt get staged either
> >> because of lazy installers or the extra dollars to stage the heat with
> >> outdoor stats.
> >> Not sure if that helps or I just confused you more?
> >> Bubba
> >I've done a couple of my 'goodwill' calls where they weren't staged and
> >the sequencers quit... breaker trips. Carriers...
> >Anyhow, I think the Honeywell stuff will stage via set indoor
> >differential between SP, Stage 2 and E. Stage 2 may bring on 15 kW...
> >and E may bring on another 15 kW... that's what I'm remembering...
> Probably an important point I see I forgot is that if you dont jumper
> E to w2 or have a separate connection for the E terminal (emergency
> heat) you will most likely find that you have cold air coming from
> your registers during the defrost mode.
> Bubba
No...no no....
The best way here to set that particular jumper up is as a series connection
to an outdoors thermostat--this leaves you with only EMG stat setting
calling the final stages, unless thermal and economic balance has been
exceeded....
IE--THEN and only IF it gets to be REALLY fucking cold outside are you
concurrentrly setting up a the simultanious call for 3rd, 4th etc. stages of
the strips upon a simple call for W.
Come on you guys--now don't fucking keep on with the continuing to
embarrassing of me here...
show/hide quoted text
<G>
SVL
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Posted by Bubba on November 28, 2006, 7:39 am
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:08:26 -0800, "PrecisionMachinisT"
show/hide quoted text
>> > > They are diff and they are not. How's that for clear?
>> >> Y is usually the first stage of heat (the A/C working in reverse)
>> >> The second stage is the electric back up strip heat. Most resi stuff
>> >> usually brings that on all at once.
>> >So in the Trane system I saw... Y brings on the compressor... I can't
>> >remember which way the RV went in that scenario... I think it was
>> >energize on cool... O.
>> >> W2 is electric heat and E is emergency heat (which is usually the same
>> >> backup electric strip heat). Most resi chit doesnt get staged either
>> >> because of lazy installers or the extra dollars to stage the heat with
>> >> outdoor stats.
>> >> Not sure if that helps or I just confused you more?
>> >> Bubba
>> >I've done a couple of my 'goodwill' calls where they weren't staged and
>> >the sequencers quit... breaker trips. Carriers...
>> >Anyhow, I think the Honeywell stuff will stage via set indoor
>> >differential between SP, Stage 2 and E. Stage 2 may bring on 15 kW...
>> >and E may bring on another 15 kW... that's what I'm remembering...
>> Probably an important point I see I forgot is that if you dont jumper
>> E to w2 or have a separate connection for the E terminal (emergency
>> heat) you will most likely find that you have cold air coming from
>> your registers during the defrost mode.
>> Bubba
>No...no no....
Yes, Yes, yes.
You're forgetting..........this is resi chit. Usually never find an
outdoor stat. Those cost money and extra monies dont get spent in
resi. W2 to E is nicknamed the outdoor stat.
Bubba
show/hide quoted text
>The best way here to set that particular jumper up is as a series connection
>to an outdoors thermostat--this leaves you with only EMG stat setting
>calling the final stages, unless thermal and economic balance has been
>exceeded....
>IE--THEN and only IF it gets to be REALLY fucking cold outside are you
>concurrentrly setting up a the simultanious call for 3rd, 4th etc. stages of
>the strips upon a simple call for W.
>Come on you guys--now don't fucking keep on with the continuing to
>embarrassing of me here...
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>> that many wires. Most homeowners cant figure out more than about 4
>> wires. Especially when different manufactures use different terminal
>> designations for the same terminal. X, C, B and a host of others are
>> all the same terminal. He will understand though after he lets the
>> smoke out.
>> Bubba
>OK Bubba... now you've got me puzzled. I know one of our older
>buildings... 1987 I think... has a Trane very similar to this. Two stage
>electric backup pack.
>Aren't W2 and E two different things in that scenario... and doesn't
>this unit (like a lot of them) call for the fan when backup is active?