Feeling Robbed out of $5,000 - New 13 Seer inferior to 18 year old 10 Seer

Recently my 18 year old 10 Seer 3 Ton Tempstar system sprung a freon
leak outside. It was decided that it needed to be replaced but a
replacement 10 Seer could not be found so I had to get a 13 Seer 3 Ton
system which meant the inside coils/furnace also had to be replaced
with compatible system. I was fine with that since the system was on
its last leg and the 13 Seer would save me some money in the long run
to cool my 1600 SqF house.

So I had a new system installed inside and out (Concord 80 Plus
Furnace) after two days the house was just not cooling right. In the
heat of the summer 90-95F here, my old system blew 52-55F during the
day and 45F at night (I have a guage 1 inch out from the vent) the new
system blows 60F-62F all day and it feels like 75 about a foot from the
vent. The wind speed is about 5.5 mph right out of the vent. I have
my air set to 71 and the new system runs all day and the temperture
just climbs 1 degree every 1.5 hours or so to about 78 in the heat of
the day and won't get to back to 71 until around midnight when the
outside temp is about 74. Were my old system would run 20 min, shut
off for about 10 min and then run for another 20 and so on all day
keeping the house at 71 all day.

I had the tech come out and look at the system and he said it was about
5% low on freon filled it up and said it was working at optimal
performance. He tells me it won't ever be able to get below 72-74 in
my house when it is 95 outside?!?! Were as with my old system I could
freeze you out of my house even when it was 95 outside?!?! The new
system runs all day to maintain 72 degrees even if it is only 83F
outside.

Now 3 weeks have gone by and today the system has completly iced over.
The tech is coming back out tommorow but I know he is just going to say
it has a feon leak, fix the leak and then turn back on the crappy
system which will run all day an still not get below 77. The back of
the house it is like 80+F.

I feel like this guy doesn't have a clue, someone help me to tell him
what to look for, or what to check because this can't be right. The
air should be colder than 62F 1 inch from the vent?? and 78F in my
house when running all day. Also, the air that is coming out doesn't
feel crip and cold more like damp and cold like the humidity is not
being removed.

I have also gotten my Energy Bill and on my 10Seer it was $240 and on
the 13 Seer the bill is now $265.

Maybe something isn't calibrated like wrong load calculations, or
expansion valves, variable air fan or blower speed? I know squat about
AC so I have nothing to stand on when he says "This system is running
great, thanks for the $5,000 and have a Hot summer."

Thanks in Advance, sorry for the long post.

Posted by tech on August 23, 2006, 3:24 am

Sounds like it's time to call a tech that's competent.

Ask him why the unit freezed over and when he is done ask him what the
"superheat" and "subcooling" figures are. If he has no clue, it's definitely
time to call another company!

Was a load calculation done to size the equipment to your structure?
What is the size of the old and new units?

> Recently my 18 year old 10 Seer 3 Ton Tempstar system sprung a freon

> leak outside. It was decided that it needed to be replaced but a

> replacement 10 Seer could not be found so I had to get a 13 Seer 3 Ton

> system which meant the inside coils/furnace also had to be replaced

> with compatible system. I was fine with that since the system was on

> its last leg and the 13 Seer would save me some money in the long run

> to cool my 1600 SqF house.

> So I had a new system installed inside and out (Concord 80 Plus

> Furnace) after two days the house was just not cooling right. In the

> heat of the summer 90-95F here, my old system blew 52-55F during the

> day and 45F at night (I have a guage 1 inch out from the vent) the new

> system blows 60F-62F all day and it feels like 75 about a foot from the

> vent. The wind speed is about 5.5 mph right out of the vent. I have

> my air set to 71 and the new system runs all day and the temperture

> just climbs 1 degree every 1.5 hours or so to about 78 in the heat of

> the day and won't get to back to 71 until around midnight when the

> outside temp is about 74. Were my old system would run 20 min, shut

> off for about 10 min and then run for another 20 and so on all day

> keeping the house at 71 all day.

> I had the tech come out and look at the system and he said it was about

> 5% low on freon filled it up and said it was working at optimal

> performance. He tells me it won't ever be able to get below 72-74 in

> my house when it is 95 outside?!?! Were as with my old system I could

> freeze you out of my house even when it was 95 outside?!?! The new

> system runs all day to maintain 72 degrees even if it is only 83F

> outside.

> Now 3 weeks have gone by and today the system has completly iced over.

> The tech is coming back out tommorow but I know he is just going to say

> it has a feon leak, fix the leak and then turn back on the crappy

> system which will run all day an still not get below 77. The back of

> the house it is like 80+F.

> I feel like this guy doesn't have a clue, someone help me to tell him

> what to look for, or what to check because this can't be right. The

> air should be colder than 62F 1 inch from the vent?? and 78F in my

> house when running all day. Also, the air that is coming out doesn't

> feel crip and cold more like damp and cold like the humidity is not

> being removed.

> I have also gotten my Energy Bill and on my 10Seer it was $240 and on

> the 13 Seer the bill is now $265.

> Maybe something isn't calibrated like wrong load calculations, or

> expansion valves, variable air fan or blower speed? I know squat about

> AC so I have nothing to stand on when he says "This system is running

> great, thanks for the $5,000 and have a Hot summer."

> Thanks in Advance, sorry for the long post.

Posted by udarrell on August 23, 2006, 2:47 pm

The old 10-SEER condenser had a larger compressor BTUH capacity in
relationship to the cooling coil than does the 13-SEER.
Therefore, with the 13-SEER matched system the coil temps will not be
quite as cold at the same airflow rates through it.

If you ran the unit at night when the air temp was too cold the
evaporator will drop below the freezing point & it will freeze over.
If that was not the cause then it could be leaking down yet, or there
might be several other problems.

If the rooms furthermost from the blower are much warmer, then you have
an airflow & probable ductwork problem.
The system may have numerous things NOT functioning properly that need
to be revealed using effective troubleshooting techniques, & then fixed!
Well, you might want to give the so-called tech some hard copies of some
of my pages.
That may or may not help him, some simply refuse to or cannot learn.
It is your decision, however, I would not let him near the system again!
Read & learn! - udarrell

--
Air Conditioning's Affordable Path to the "Human Comfort Zone Goal"
http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditioning-total-heat-enthalpy-latent-heat.html
HVAC Techs:
http://www.udarrell.com/ac-trouble-shooting-superheat-subcooling.html

------------------
tech wrote:

>Sounds like it's time to call a tech that's competent.

>Ask him why the unit freezed over and when he is done ask him what the

>"superheat" and "subcooling" figures are. If he has no clue, it's definitely

>time to call another company!

>Was a load calculation done to size the equipment to your structure?

>What is the size of the old and new units?

>>Recently my 18 year old 10 Seer 3 Ton Tempstar system sprung a freon

>>leak outside. It was decided that it needed to be replaced but a

>>replacement 10 Seer could not be found so I had to get a 13 Seer 3 Ton

>>system which meant the inside coils/furnace also had to be replaced

>>with compatible system. I was fine with that since the system was on

>>its last leg and the 13 Seer would save me some money in the long run

>>to cool my 1600 SqF house.

>>So I had a new system installed inside and out (Concord 80 Plus

>>Furnace) after two days the house was just not cooling right. In the

>>heat of the summer 90-95F here, my old system blew 52-55F during the

>>day and 45F at night (I have a guage 1 inch out from the vent) the new

>>system blows 60F-62F all day and it feels like 75 about a foot from the

>>vent. The wind speed is about 5.5 mph right out of the vent. I have

>>my air set to 71 and the new system runs all day and the temperture

>>just climbs 1 degree every 1.5 hours or so to about 78 in the heat of

>>the day and won't get to back to 71 until around midnight when the

>>outside temp is about 74. Were my old system would run 20 min, shut

>>off for about 10 min and then run for another 20 and so on all day

>>keeping the house at 71 all day.

>>I had the tech come out and look at the system and he said it was about

>>5% low on freon filled it up and said it was working at optimal

>>performance. He tells me it won't ever be able to get below 72-74 in

>>my house when it is 95 outside?!?! Were as with my old system I could

>>freeze you out of my house even when it was 95 outside?!?! The new

>>system runs all day to maintain 72 degrees even if it is only 83F

>>outside.

>>Now 3 weeks have gone by and today the system has completly iced over.

>>The tech is coming back out tommorow but I know he is just going to say

>>it has a feon leak, fix the leak and then turn back on the crappy

>>system which will run all day an still not get below 77. The back of

>>the house it is like 80+F.

>>I feel like this guy doesn't have a clue, someone help me to tell him

>>what to look for, or what to check because this can't be right. The

>>air should be colder than 62F 1 inch from the vent?? and 78F in my

>>house when running all day. Also, the air that is coming out doesn't

>>feel crip and cold more like damp and cold like the humidity is not

>>being removed.

>>I have also gotten my Energy Bill and on my 10Seer it was $240 and on

>>the 13 Seer the bill is now $265.

>>Maybe something isn't calibrated like wrong load calculations, or

>>expansion valves, variable air fan or blower speed? I know squat about

>>AC so I have nothing to stand on when he says "This system is running

>>great, thanks for the $5,000 and have a Hot summer."

>>Thanks in Advance, sorry for the long post.

Posted by Noon-Air on August 23, 2006, 7:56 am