Feeling Robbed out of $5,000 - New 13 Seer inferior to 18 year old 10 Seer

Snip long rant....

Something is definitely wrong. 3 tons is 3 tons not matter how you weigh it.
It will remove the same amount of heat (34000 to 36000 btu/h) as the old
system and with higher SEER should take less energy to do it. It's like
buying a new car with the same sized engine that gets better mileage. You
should have a warranty with that new expensive cheap system. The installer
should stand behind his work and should provide a labor warranty for the
first year.

Sounds like he has a bad joint somewhere in the system that is letting the
freon out. Perhaps he has melted a fitting due to improper brazing. Maybe
there is a blockage in the liquid line caused by his sloppy work... maybe
the foreign laborer who put the unit together screwed up at the factory and
your guy just has yet to find it.

If this guy works for a competent contractor, then call the owner and demand
it be corrected at no additional cost. If he is a station wagon tech, you
will have to call another company, pay the bill and go after your first guy
in court... sorry but them's the breaks.

Your new system should work at least as well as the old, if not better and
your utility bill should come down 20 to 30%.

There are so many ways to check a system at startup... Pressure readings,
superheat, subcooling, amp readings, Delta T at both coils, etc.

And if one is a competent technician and knows his equipment, the "feel"
method still works fine as a starting point... you just feel her out.

If she's warm in the right spots and cool in the right spots, she's going to
be good. She should purr quietly and contently on every cycle and not cost a
lot to maintain or operate. She should work hard to keep you cool, only take
a break when you are satisfied and never groan, squeal, whine, rattle your
cage or make any annoying sounds... oh, we are definitely talking a/c & not
women. :-)

Posted by on August 23, 2006, 9:47 am

Thanks, that helps, so the 2nd opionion guy(another company other than
the one who installed the system) just called and said he was on the
way. I'll ask him about the Superheat and subcooling. Anything else I
should ask about?

Posted by RSCamaro on August 24, 2006, 5:31 pm

On 23 Aug 2006 06:47:49 -0700, ebay@spxchrome.com wrote:

>Thanks, that helps, so the 2nd opionion guy(another company other than

>the one who installed the system) just called and said he was on the

>way. I'll ask him about the Superheat and subcooling. Anything else I

>should ask about?

Of course there are other readings to consider. The start up
information should have included...

Suction pressure
Discharge pressure
Saturated suction temperature close to the compressor
Saturated condensing temperature close to the metering device
Return air temperature
Supply air temperature
Outside air temperature
Condenser discharge air temperature
Subcool reading
superheat reading
Wet bulb temperature
manufacturers design subcool or superheat
compressor amps
condenser fan amps

These readings should be taken at no less than 15 minutes of
continuous run time. Hardly any tech that I've ever come across
writes these numbers down on their invoices, it's a shame since they
can be really useful to those who use them on a consistent basis.
These readings will tell a competent tech what's wrong with the unit
without even touching it.

...Ron
--
68'RS Camaro
88'Formula
00'GT Mustang

Posted by on August 23, 2006, 10:13 am

On 22 Aug 2006 22:43:37 -0700, ebay@spxchrome.com wrote:

>Recently my 18 year old 10 Seer 3 Ton Tempstar system sprung a freon

>leak outside. It was decided that it needed to be replaced but a

>replacement 10 Seer could not be found so I had to get a 13 Seer 3 Ton

>system which meant the inside coils/furnace also had to be replaced

>with compatible system. I was fine with that since the system was on

>its last leg and the 13 Seer would save me some money in the long run

>to cool my 1600 SqF house.

>So I had a new system installed inside and out (Concord 80 Plus

>Furnace) after two days the house was just not cooling right. In the

>heat of the summer 90-95F here, my old system blew 52-55F during the

>day and 45F at night (I have a guage 1 inch out from the vent) the new

>system blows 60F-62F all day and it feels like 75 about a foot from the

>vent. The wind speed is about 5.5 mph right out of the vent. I have

>my air set to 71 and the new system runs all day and the temperture

>just climbs 1 degree every 1.5 hours or so to about 78 in the heat of

>the day and won't get to back to 71 until around midnight when the

>outside temp is about 74. Were my old system would run 20 min, shut

>off for about 10 min and then run for another 20 and so on all day

>keeping the house at 71 all day.

>I had the tech come out and look at the system and he said it was about

>5% low on freon filled it up and said it was working at optimal

>performance. He tells me it won't ever be able to get below 72-74 in

>my house when it is 95 outside?!?! Were as with my old system I could

>freeze you out of my house even when it was 95 outside?!?! The new

>system runs all day to maintain 72 degrees even if it is only 83F

>outside.

>Now 3 weeks have gone by and today the system has completly iced over.

>The tech is coming back out tommorow but I know he is just going to say

>it has a feon leak, fix the leak and then turn back on the crappy

>system which will run all day an still not get below 77. The back of

>the house it is like 80+F.

>I feel like this guy doesn't have a clue, someone help me to tell him

>what to look for, or what to check because this can't be right. The

>air should be colder than 62F 1 inch from the vent?? and 78F in my

>house when running all day. Also, the air that is coming out doesn't

>feel crip and cold more like damp and cold like the humidity is not

>being removed.

>I have also gotten my Energy Bill and on my 10Seer it was $240 and on

>the 13 Seer the bill is now $265.

>Maybe something isn't calibrated like wrong load calculations, or

>expansion valves, variable air fan or blower speed? I know squat about

>AC so I have nothing to stand on when he says "This system is running

>great, thanks for the $5,000 and have a Hot summer."

>Thanks in Advance, sorry for the long post.

It has been said over and over at all levels of equipment
distributorship that the new 13 seer equipment will seperate the hacks
from the professionals.

FYI- professionals purge linesets with dry nitrogen as they are welded
up. Professionals will also pressure test a system prior to charging
it. Kinda hard to have a leak if its pressure tested.

Sounds to me like you've engaged the services of a hack or company of
hacks.

Posted by on August 23, 2006, 11:01 am

Well here was the 2nd opinion diagnosis. He says the the line should
have been changed out. The current line is 1/4 and he says the 13 Seer
needs to be on a 3/8 line. He also believes that maybe the dryer maybe
stopped up or were the dryer was welded onto the old line it may have a
kink from the weld. It really isn't leaking freon he added a little to
keep it from freezing up. The gauges read 68 and 360 and he said they
are suppose to read around 68 and 250 - whatever in the hell that
means.

So, how many more hackers can I get out here to come up with their own
theroies.... lol or does this make sense about the line size?

Page 3 of 12 < 1 2 3 > last >>

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