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Posted by on October 12, 2008, 10:35 pm
Oh wise men of the alt.hvac newsgroup
Moved Freus unit (4 + 2) from a large house the owner could not afford
to a smaller house he just bought that had a York 4 ton condenser.
Swapped the 4 ton condensers and added a 2 to the old larger house.
The start up on the 4 and 2 ton air cooled condensers that had been
moved to the old house went great. But the 4 + 2 Freus won't work. So
here is the situation.
Pumped down both units to save most of the Freon
Closed the liquid and suction back seating valves
Moves the unit to the other house and reconnected the refrigerant
lines and installed liquid line drier using nitrogen
Put a vacuum on the system
And then weighed in a half pound of refrigerant and opened the valves
Got ready to do a sub cool on start up and then F**K - the unit won't
work
Here is what I have
Freus 4 + 2 unit with scroll compressors
The four ton compressor is a Copeland Scroll ZR40K3 PFV 230
RLA 12.6 LRA 104.0
The second circuit (the 2 ton) is not used and the LS sealed
The Freus units condenser fan and water circulation pump always get
power from the first circuit which in this case is the four ton so all
controls ok.
Equilibrium pressure is 125 Lbs but when the contactor closes the
running amperage rapidly goes from 12 to 15 to 23 amps and higher them
the compressor starts bypassing - this happens in 2- 3 seconds. During
the 2-3 seconds the suction pressure drops to about 80 before the
compressor starts to bypass and the liquid line pressure stays the
same or drops maybe 5 lbs. The suction line does not cool and the
liquid line does not heat but the refrigerant line between the
compressor and the condenser gets hot in those few seconds.
I checked the ports to make sure they were open, verified the
capacitor mF and looked for any other things I may have done wrong. I
must also admit that originally I thought maybe the parker port was
stuck so I installed a piercing valve between the compressor and the
port on the liquid line to see if there was a pressure difference -
what a waste of time. Never experienced this before - what am I
missing?
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Posted by on October 13, 2008, 12:12 am
On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:35:06 -0700, vance500@bak.rr.com wrote:
>Oh wise men of the alt.hvac newsgroup
>Moved Freus unit (4 + 2) from a large house the owner could not afford
>to a smaller house he just bought that had a York 4 ton condenser.
>Swapped the 4 ton condensers and added a 2 to the old larger house.
>The start up on the 4 and 2 ton air cooled condensers that had been
>moved to the old house went great. But the 4 + 2 Freus won't work. So
>here is the situation.
>Pumped down both units to save most of the Freon
>Closed the liquid and suction back seating valves
>Moves the unit to the other house and reconnected the refrigerant
>lines and installed liquid line drier using nitrogen
>Put a vacuum on the system
>And then weighed in a half pound of refrigerant and opened the valves
>Got ready to do a sub cool on start up and then F**K - the unit won't
>work
>Here is what I have
>Freus 4 + 2 unit with scroll compressors
>The four ton compressor is a Copeland Scroll ZR40K3 PFV 230
>RLA 12.6 LRA 104.0
>The second circuit (the 2 ton) is not used and the LS sealed
>The Freus units condenser fan and water circulation pump always get
>power from the first circuit which in this case is the four ton so all
>controls ok.
>Equilibrium pressure is 125 Lbs but when the contactor closes the
>running amperage rapidly goes from 12 to 15 to 23 amps and higher them
>the compressor starts bypassing - this happens in 2- 3 seconds. During
>the 2-3 seconds the suction pressure drops to about 80 before the
>compressor starts to bypass and the liquid line pressure stays the
>same or drops maybe 5 lbs. The suction line does not cool and the
>liquid line does not heat but the refrigerant line between the
>compressor and the condenser gets hot in those few seconds.
>I checked the ports to make sure they were open, verified the
>capacitor mF and looked for any other things I may have done wrong. I
>must also admit that originally I thought maybe the parker port was
>stuck so I installed a piercing valve between the compressor and the
>port on the liquid line to see if there was a pressure difference -
>what a waste of time. Never experienced this before - what am I
>missin
Check your line voltage and compressor windings. Make sure that the
compressor that you disabled is not trying to fire when it shouldn't.
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Posted by on October 13, 2008, 3:15 pm
On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:12:26 -0700, what a maroon wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:35:06 -0700, vance500@bak.rr.com wrote:
>>Oh wise men of the alt.hvac newsgroup
>>Moved Freus unit (4 + 2) from a large house the owner could not afford
>>to a smaller house he just bought that had a York 4 ton condenser.
>>Swapped the 4 ton condensers and added a 2 to the old larger house.
>>The start up on the 4 and 2 ton air cooled condensers that had been
>>moved to the old house went great. But the 4 + 2 Freus won't work. So
>>here is the situation.
>>Pumped down both units to save most of the Freon
>>Closed the liquid and suction back seating valves
>>Moves the unit to the other house and reconnected the refrigerant
>>lines and installed liquid line drier using nitrogen
>>Put a vacuum on the system
>>And then weighed in a half pound of refrigerant and opened the valves
>>Got ready to do a sub cool on start up and then F**K - the unit won't
>>work
>>Here is what I have
>>Freus 4 + 2 unit with scroll compressors
>>The four ton compressor is a Copeland Scroll ZR40K3 PFV 230
>>RLA 12.6 LRA 104.0
>>The second circuit (the 2 ton) is not used and the LS sealed
>>The Freus units condenser fan and water circulation pump always get
>>power from the first circuit which in this case is the four ton so all
>>controls ok.
>>Equilibrium pressure is 125 Lbs but when the contactor closes the
>>running amperage rapidly goes from 12 to 15 to 23 amps and higher them
>>the compressor starts bypassing - this happens in 2- 3 seconds. During
>>the 2-3 seconds the suction pressure drops to about 80 before the
>>compressor starts to bypass and the liquid line pressure stays the
>>same or drops maybe 5 lbs. The suction line does not cool and the
>>liquid line does not heat but the refrigerant line between the
>>compressor and the condenser gets hot in those few seconds.
>>I checked the ports to make sure they were open, verified the
>>capacitor mF and looked for any other things I may have done wrong. I
>>must also admit that originally I thought maybe the parker port was
>>stuck so I installed a piercing valve between the compressor and the
>>port on the liquid line to see if there was a pressure difference -
>>what a waste of time. Never experienced this before - what am I
>>missin
>Check your line voltage and compressor windings. Make sure that the
>compressor that you disabled is not trying to fire when it shouldn't.
The second circuit is not connected to any line or low voltage
windings - there is no power going to the contactor. Only the first
circuit is connected single phase 230 and stat wires. All refrigerant
lines and electrical line are connected to the proper circuit.
Also, the line set were cut about 4 feet from the valves. I just added
a coupling and liquid line filter to reconnect to the other system.
I've never blocked a line with too much silfoss
Yes, I have seen amperage climb on blocked systems; however, the
pressure also goes up on the liquid line side until the compressor
starts to bypass at about 400 PSI with blocked caps or if locked rotor
it happens instantly. But this is different and like I stated above in
original post
please let know if you need any other information
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Posted by on October 13, 2008, 3:45 pm
On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:15:27 -0700, vance500@bak.rr.com wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:12:26 -0700, what a maroon wrote:
>>On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:35:06 -0700, vance500@bak.rr.com wrote:
>>>Oh wise men of the alt.hvac newsgroup
>>>Moved Freus unit (4 + 2) from a large house the owner could not afford
>>>to a smaller house he just bought that had a York 4 ton condenser.
>>>Swapped the 4 ton condensers and added a 2 to the old larger house.
>>>The start up on the 4 and 2 ton air cooled condensers that had been
>>>moved to the old house went great. But the 4 + 2 Freus won't work. So
>>>here is the situation.
>>>Pumped down both units to save most of the Freon
>>>Closed the liquid and suction back seating valves
>>>Moves the unit to the other house and reconnected the refrigerant
>>>lines and installed liquid line drier using nitrogen
>>>Put a vacuum on the system
>>>And then weighed in a half pound of refrigerant and opened the valves
>>>Got ready to do a sub cool on start up and then F**K - the unit won't
>>>work
>>>Here is what I have
>>>Freus 4 + 2 unit with scroll compressors
>>>The four ton compressor is a Copeland Scroll ZR40K3 PFV 230
>>>RLA 12.6 LRA 104.0
>>>The second circuit (the 2 ton) is not used and the LS sealed
>>>The Freus units condenser fan and water circulation pump always get
>>>power from the first circuit which in this case is the four ton so all
>>>controls ok.
>>>Equilibrium pressure is 125 Lbs but when the contactor closes the
>>>running amperage rapidly goes from 12 to 15 to 23 amps and higher them
>>>the compressor starts bypassing - this happens in 2- 3 seconds. During
>>>the 2-3 seconds the suction pressure drops to about 80 before the
>>>compressor starts to bypass and the liquid line pressure stays the
>>>same or drops maybe 5 lbs. The suction line does not cool and the
>>>liquid line does not heat but the refrigerant line between the
>>>compressor and the condenser gets hot in those few seconds.
>>>I checked the ports to make sure they were open, verified the
>>>capacitor mF and looked for any other things I may have done wrong. I
>>>must also admit that originally I thought maybe the parker port was
>>>stuck so I installed a piercing valve between the compressor and the
>>>port on the liquid line to see if there was a pressure difference -
>>>what a waste of time. Never experienced this before - what am I
>>>missin
Something closed, obviously. IS that port 'on the liquid
line' REALLY 'on the liquid line', or at the service valve ?
And closed LL solenoid ? Blocked metering device ?
If you close the LL valve and then pump down, what happens ot
the pressures at LL and SL ?
--
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www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
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Posted by Stormin Mormon on October 13, 2008, 9:34 am
It's really easy to block shut a liquid line with solder. I've taken to
soldering all fitting horizontal, if at all possible. Sounds like you have a
blockage of the liquid line. My old boss used to call it "solder balling"
the line.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
Oh wise men of the alt.hvac newsgroup
Moved Freus unit (4 + 2) from a large house the owner could not afford
to a smaller house he just bought that had a York 4 ton condenser.
Swapped the 4 ton condensers and added a 2 to the old larger house.
The start up on the 4 and 2 ton air cooled condensers that had been
moved to the old house went great. But the 4 + 2 Freus won't work. So
here is the situation.
Pumped down both units to save most of the Freon
Closed the liquid and suction back seating valves
Moves the unit to the other house and reconnected the refrigerant
lines and installed liquid line drier using nitrogen
Put a vacuum on the system
And then weighed in a half pound of refrigerant and opened the valves
Got ready to do a sub cool on start up and then F**K - the unit won't
work
Here is what I have
Freus 4 + 2 unit with scroll compressors
The four ton compressor is a Copeland Scroll ZR40K3 PFV 230
RLA 12.6 LRA 104.0
The second circuit (the 2 ton) is not used and the LS sealed
The Freus units condenser fan and water circulation pump always get
power from the first circuit which in this case is the four ton so all
controls ok.
Equilibrium pressure is 125 Lbs but when the contactor closes the
running amperage rapidly goes from 12 to 15 to 23 amps and higher them
the compressor starts bypassing - this happens in 2- 3 seconds. During
the 2-3 seconds the suction pressure drops to about 80 before the
compressor starts to bypass and the liquid line pressure stays the
same or drops maybe 5 lbs. The suction line does not cool and the
liquid line does not heat but the refrigerant line between the
compressor and the condenser gets hot in those few seconds.
I checked the ports to make sure they were open, verified the
capacitor mF and looked for any other things I may have done wrong. I
must also admit that originally I thought maybe the parker port was
stuck so I installed a piercing valve between the compressor and the
port on the liquid line to see if there was a pressure difference -
what a waste of time. Never experienced this before - what am I
missing?
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>Moved Freus unit (4 + 2) from a large house the owner could not afford
>to a smaller house he just bought that had a York 4 ton condenser.
>Swapped the 4 ton condensers and added a 2 to the old larger house.
>The start up on the 4 and 2 ton air cooled condensers that had been
>moved to the old house went great. But the 4 + 2 Freus won't work. So
>here is the situation.
>Pumped down both units to save most of the Freon
>Closed the liquid and suction back seating valves
>Moves the unit to the other house and reconnected the refrigerant
>lines and installed liquid line drier using nitrogen
>Put a vacuum on the system
>And then weighed in a half pound of refrigerant and opened the valves
>Got ready to do a sub cool on start up and then F**K - the unit won't
>work
>Here is what I have
>Freus 4 + 2 unit with scroll compressors
>The four ton compressor is a Copeland Scroll ZR40K3 PFV 230
>RLA 12.6 LRA 104.0
>The second circuit (the 2 ton) is not used and the LS sealed
>The Freus units condenser fan and water circulation pump always get
>power from the first circuit which in this case is the four ton so all
>controls ok.
>Equilibrium pressure is 125 Lbs but when the contactor closes the
>running amperage rapidly goes from 12 to 15 to 23 amps and higher them
>the compressor starts bypassing - this happens in 2- 3 seconds. During
>the 2-3 seconds the suction pressure drops to about 80 before the
>compressor starts to bypass and the liquid line pressure stays the
>same or drops maybe 5 lbs. The suction line does not cool and the
>liquid line does not heat but the refrigerant line between the
>compressor and the condenser gets hot in those few seconds.
>I checked the ports to make sure they were open, verified the
>capacitor mF and looked for any other things I may have done wrong. I
>must also admit that originally I thought maybe the parker port was
>stuck so I installed a piercing valve between the compressor and the
>port on the liquid line to see if there was a pressure difference -
>what a waste of time. Never experienced this before - what am I
>missin