Freus problem what to do next

Posted by Stormin Mormon on October 14, 2008, 10:50 pm

That's an interesting idea. The compressor may be pumping into a short stub?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

I'm thinking Paul's closer to the truth. Are you sure you've piped to the
correct liquid line valve from condenser coil [if you stubbed the 2 - ton,
and choose the wrong liquid line - thinking it's a dual circuited condenser
coil - you may have goofed.] Disconnect everything after you've recovered
your refrigerant, and check with nitrogen purge.

--
Zyp

Posted by Fartikus on October 15, 2008, 6:20 am

> That's an interesting idea. The compressor may be pumping into a short
> stub?
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .

Stormy, now how did you get there, and why are you sucking on the liquid
line?

Posted by Old and Grunpy on October 14, 2008, 5:36 pm

> On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:05:53 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

>>You're not telling us what was happening on the high side. What were the
>>pressures? Did it run up to 400 before the safety valve started to recirc?

> Maybe I wasn't clear.
> This is what happens when the condenser is off both high and low
> pressures are at 150 lbs. When the contactor pulls in the high side
> stays about the same 150 lbs or it may drop slightly 4 or 5 lbs. This
> is what is strange.

you did not fill line full of solder by chance

Normally it takes about one or two minutes for the

> pressure to increase to the point that the bypass opens in the
> compressor. But the compressor starts bypassing 2 - 3 seconds after
> start up. The suction side drops about 25 -30 lbs before the
> compressor starts bypassing. When this first happened I thought the
> liquid line valve was stuck even though I opened with my Allen key. To
> check this I installed a piercing valve on the liquid line on the
> compressor side of the back seating valve thinking the pressure would
> be much higher if the valve was stuck. After connecting my gauges to
> the new port I found the pressure was the same. BTW if I leave for a
> day and let the unit sit it still bypasses on the first try the next
> day in 2-3 seconds.
> Thanks, Vance

Posted by Old and Grunpy on October 14, 2008, 5:30 pm

Does this unit have head master or head pressure control if it does.
the head master have three lines to it hot gas from compressor which also
goes to
condenser other line goes to liquid line of condenser which is outlet of
condenser
and third line goes to receiver or to TXV. these valves some time after you
pull
vacuum on them do hang up in close position, take hammer and give it good
bang
from side do not hit upper head part, ones it had loose up it should work
perfect
no need to change.
tony
www.cas-environ.com

> Oh wise men of the alt.hvac newsgroup
> Moved Freus unit (4 + 2) from a large house the owner could not afford
> to a smaller house he just bought that had a York 4 ton condenser.
> Swapped the 4 ton condensers and added a 2 to the old larger house.
> The start up on the 4 and 2 ton air cooled condensers that had been
> moved to the old house went great. But the 4 + 2 Freus won't work. So
> here is the situation.
> Pumped down both units to save most of the Freon
> Closed the liquid and suction back seating valves
> Moves the unit to the other house and reconnected the refrigerant
> lines and installed liquid line drier using nitrogen
> Put a vacuum on the system
> And then weighed in a half pound of refrigerant and opened the valves
> Got ready to do a sub cool on start up and then F**K - the unit won't
> work
> Here is what I have
> Freus 4 + 2 unit with scroll compressors
> The four ton compressor is a Copeland Scroll ZR40K3 PFV 230
> RLA 12.6 LRA 104.0
> The second circuit (the 2 ton) is not used and the LS sealed
> The Freus units condenser fan and water circulation pump always get
> power from the first circuit which in this case is the four ton so all
> controls ok.
> Equilibrium pressure is 125 Lbs but when the contactor closes the
> running amperage rapidly goes from 12 to 15 to 23 amps and higher them
> the compressor starts bypassing - this happens in 2- 3 seconds. During
> the 2-3 seconds the suction pressure drops to about 80 before the
> compressor starts to bypass and the liquid line pressure stays the
> same or drops maybe 5 lbs. The suction line does not cool and the
> liquid line does not heat but the refrigerant line between the
> compressor and the condenser gets hot in those few seconds.
> I checked the ports to make sure they were open, verified the
> capacitor mF and looked for any other things I may have done wrong. I
> must also admit that originally I thought maybe the parker port was
> stuck so I installed a piercing valve between the compressor and the
> port on the liquid line to see if there was a pressure difference -
> what a waste of time. Never experienced this before - what am I
> missing?

Posted by on October 15, 2008, 12:39 am

All the ideas so far sound good but I double and even triple checked
most of them:

Too much Silfoss, probably not because I cut the existing lines about
4 feet from the condenser then used a liquid line dryer to reconnect
the high side and a coupling for the low side. Also, when the
compressor starts the high side doesn't go up - it just stays where is
started at 150 psi. Then 2 seconds later the bypass opens for about 2
or 3 seconds and then closes for a couple of seconds. After a couple
more seconds of the compressor running the bypass opens up again and
the pattern repeats. So, if the liquid line was blocked by my brazing
my head pressure would increase rapidly and its not.

As for Old and Grumpy's post, that might be a possibility but I would
have to look at the condenser more closely. The only thing I saw was a
strainer but I could be wrong. All the other things have been checked
and it almost act like a 3 phase condenser out of phase with the extra
problem of the bypass opening and closing.

Are any of you guys familiar with Freus Condensers and package units.
The condenser coil is water and air cooled. Their package units used
to be manufactured from York package units. And all their compressors
are Scrolls. This is the first time I have encountered anything like
this.

One more thing the evaporator coil is a Summit 4 ton multi-position
with txv and all the equipment is about 2 years old.

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Freus problem what to do next - Page 4