Home Page link

Furnace Inconsistant Light-Off

HVAC Discussions - Heating, ventilation and air conditioning. 

Page 2 of 4       < 1 2 3 > last >> Bookmark this page:  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Furnace Inconsistant Light-Off Marc Anderson 12-31-2006
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Posted by Noon-Air on December 31, 2006, 7:12 pm

>
>>
>>> The following message is written with respect to your profession !
>>>
>>> As for the "LP isn't anything to mess with"...
>>> Don't take this wrong, but that falls under the normal 'understood'
>>> precautions. People might call me crazy, but I'm not stupid.
>>> Is there something specific you're trying to warn me of ?
>>>
>>> Let's re-phrase my "novice" status - I'm not going to pretend to be a
>>> HVAC
>>> expert, but I'm a lot more advanced than your regular DYI'er.
>>> (I'm an aircraft maintenance instructor - on commercial aircraft)
>>> So, could you please respond on a higher level - please :^)
>>> I know you all hate it when a non-expert looks at the schematic and
>>> thinks
>>> he's got it all figured out.
>>> Well, I'll confess that's partly the case, but how complicated can this
>>> sucker be (I CAN grasp the concepts and understand system functions).
>>> And systems troubleshooting (including electrical)is part of my job, and
>>> I've got the test equipment.
>>> Yes, at some point I do have enough smarts to know when I'm in over my
>>> head.
>>>
>>> So, back to the problem ...
>>> If it's not a control issue, then what's preventing the controller from
>>> applying the power to open the gas valve ?
>>> The vent blower switch and limit switch (which provide power to the
>>> controller) are good - there's 24v to the controller. I don't see any
>>> other inputs to the controller that it would use as logic for powering
>>> the
>>> gas valve.
>>> High voltage to the controller is good, and igniter works,
>>> so, that leaves the low voltage side of the controller - to the gas
>>> valve.
>>> So, what am I missing? I checked the voltages to/at the connector on
>>> the
>>> controller - it's easy to probe from the back of the unit.
>>>
>>> I'd just like to understand... :^)
>>> but I also don't want to be lumped in the category from the
>>> "every year, there's got to be a few of these idiots" thread :^{
>>>
>>> Remember, I meant this all in a respectful way !!! :^)
>>> Thanks Marc
>>
>>Like Mike said.... "once all the safties are proven"......
>>and *if* all of the safties are proven, then yes, look at the control
>>module....
>>
>
> hell who knows it could also be a slow opening gas valve or
> intermittant gas valve. might be a bad or intermittant grounding
> issue. maybe itsa honeywell smartvalve issue.

Smartvalve?? not hardly...

"Coleman residential (LP)"

Can you say trailer??



Tankless Water Heaters 468x60
Posted by on December 31, 2006, 10:56 pm
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 18:39:27 -0500, Marc Anderson

>The following message is written with respect to your profession !
>
>As for the "LP isn't anything to mess with"...
>Don't take this wrong, but that falls under the normal 'understood'
>precautions. People might call me crazy, but I'm not stupid.
>Is there something specific you're trying to warn me of ?
>
>Let's re-phrase my "novice" status - I'm not going to pretend to be a
>HVAC expert, but I'm a lot more advanced than your regular DYI'er.
>(I'm an aircraft maintenance instructor - on commercial aircraft)
>So, could you please respond on a higher level - please :^)

        What altitude would you prefer ? :-)

>I'd just like to understand... :^)
>but I also don't want to be lumped in the category from the
>"every year, there's got to be a few of these idiots" thread :^{

        You think you're above them ? ( another airplane joke )

        You probably think you can just TAKE OFF the covers and the
problem will be PLANE, huh ?

>
>Remember, I meant this all in a respectful way !!! :^)
>Thanks Marc

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Posted by Power's Mechanical on December 31, 2006, 5:52 pm

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:07:52 -0500, Marc Anderson

>
>I do have 24v to the ignition unit, but I don't get 24v output to the
>gas valve. At least not every time. One time, when it finally opened,
>it was toward the end of the igniter cycle (it was cooling down).
>Is the gas valve on a time delay, or should the valve be powered
>immediately ? How does the control unit know when it's time to open
>the gas valve, since there's no temp sensor at the igniter.
>
If you have 24v input to the ignition module on a call for heat and no
24v output to the gas valve then probably the ignition module is bad.
Its not often that they are intermittent like you say but it does
happen.

On a call for heat and once all the safeties are proven the ignition
module gets 24v at which point the ignitor glows for a predetermined
amount of time. On some models if the ignitor doesnt draw the proper
amperage the gas valve isnt allowed to open at which point you have to
replace the ignitor. On other models the ignitor will go through a
warm up period of say 45 sec and then the gas valve gets 24v and opens.
If flame isnt sensed within a specified time the gas valve closes and
may re try a few times and lock out or it may lock out immediately.

Thats basically how they work and should give you enough info to be
dangerous or fix it. Good luck.


Posted by Marc Anderson on December 31, 2006, 9:32 pm
Thanks for the info. Ah-hah !
Igniter current is sensed to verify igniter operation.
Have seen similar idea used on aircraft.

Looks like I had the basic concepts figured out,
just wondered what little secrets I didn't know.

I'll promise not to be 'dangerous' :^)
If I don't play with it myself, at least I'll be a little more
knowledgeable when the pro comes to call.

Thanks again
Marc

Posted by Power's Mechanical on December 31, 2006, 10:10 pm

Marc Anderson wrote:
> Thanks for the info. Ah-hah !
> Igniter current is sensed to verify igniter operation.
> Have seen similar idea used on aircraft.
>
I said thats one way. Yours is more likely to be the other way. The
valve gets powered open and if flame is established and sensed by a
separate flame sensor within a certain amount of seconds it stays
opened. If no flame is sensed the valve closes and the ignition module
locks out.

> Looks like I had the basic concepts figured out,
> just wondered what little secrets I didn't know.
>
Its not secret. Its basic operation. Each of the manufactures have
certain twists they employ to achieve the same result. That result
being a safe controlled explosion and fire.

> I'll promise not to be 'dangerous' :^)
> If I don't play with it myself, at least I'll be a little more
> knowledgeable when the pro comes to call.

I doubt you will be able to purchase a ignition module but if you do
somehow manage to get one and install it, and when you go to light it
for the first time Id advise keeping your face away from the burner
area and keep one hand on the power switch in case you need to shut it
off.

Youd be better off having a pro do it. He would be able to spot
problems and correct them before they become bigger problems. The only
reason I told you this info is to keep the scum bag rip off artists
from selling you something you dont need so they can finance a fishing
trip in Florida or something.


Page 2 of 4       < 1 2 3 > last >>
Similar ThreadsPosted
(bought furnace off internet now it wont work )New High effiency Furnace dual fan temp goodman ny hvac duct December 8, 2006, 9:55 pm
oil furnace October 11, 2006, 10:09 am
Re: Cat in the furnace November 30, 2006, 2:27 pm
furnace id: ACI December 16, 2007, 10:56 pm
Oil Furnace February 18, 2008, 11:55 am
Furnace Help Please March 13, 2008, 8:15 pm
Need advice on a new furnace September 15, 2006, 11:31 pm
Concord Furnace October 15, 2006, 9:37 am
Gas furnace issues November 4, 2006, 11:03 am
Gas Fireplace vs. Furnace November 10, 2006, 9:26 am

Contact Us | Privacy Policy

XML SitemapXML Sitemap