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Posted by geothermaljones on February 7, 2009, 3:14 pm
First, let it be known, his post is a sales pitch for a product that's
really not needed by anyone that takes into consideration (and action),
proper precautions with install & maintenance up front...
Pump & Dump is a very efficient & practical system, and with a variable
speed pump, it's a dream.
Using the aforementioned precautions, proper installation, & maintenance &
it'll serve as well as any closed system, even w/out his miracle cure...
I also disagree with his comment about a proper Man J calc giving the info
you insert into a loopfield software, blah, blah, blah...
Man. J is vital for any system.
Using loop sizing software is always helpful, but can never be the sole
source for sizing. The software input, & output has to be verified. Many
County offices & most well drillers in a given area can confirm the actual
makeup of the ground your working on. If a local driller with a history
tells me I'm going through 6 water tables in the first 150', I can be
assured a shallower well will produce quite nicely. If it's dry sand, I'm
going deeper. If it's through an Iron Vein or Granite, I'm reconsidering
vertical altogether.
Horizontal works well, but again you have to know your ground.
Will drip lines help?
Should I trench or bore?
Is the frost line 36", 48" 60" more???
How about those pond loops?
Climate Master is a fine midrange piece of equipment, there are better, &
there are worse...
All Mfgrs will extol their virtues, it's up to the buyer & the installer to
get the most out of any of them.
goodluck
geothermaljones
> wrote:
>> I have to agree, except for some of it...
>> geothermaljones
> I realize you do not post here for my benefit, but I would really
> appreciate your comments on what you disagree with. I am trying to
> decide how to reduce my heating costs. First is insulating and
> sealing where the builder did not. But I am trying to lurk here and
> learn enough that I can make some intelligent decisions and not
> contract with someone who is incompetent.
> Dan
>
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Posted by Bipolar Bear on February 8, 2009, 9:11 pm
> First, let it be known, his post is a sales pitch for a product that's
> really not needed by anyone that takes into consideration (and action),
> proper precautions with install & maintenance up front...
Though not recommended I freeze mine every six months or so its pump and
dump--the well water is terribly hard with calcium and magnesium scaling.
> Pump & Dump is a very efficient & practical system, and with a variable
> speed pump, it's a dream.
A standard well pump system works fine if you use the parker 265 double
acting valve.
http://www.frigodesign.ru/sale/parker/WaterValves_Parker.pdf
Just using a lawn sprinkler valve here in my own sys though recall it cost
maybe 12 bucks at home deplot.
> Using the aforementioned precautions, proper installation, & maintenance &
> it'll serve as well as any closed system, even w/out his miracle cure...
With open sys usually recommended to be sure that your water valve is
located at the coil inlet side--apparently more mineral precipitation will
occur where standing water is under pressure.
> I also disagree with his comment about a proper Man J calc giving the info
> you insert into a loopfield software, blah, blah, blah...
> Man. J is vital for any system.
> Using loop sizing software is always helpful, but can never be the sole
> source for sizing. The software input, & output has to be verified. Many
> County offices & most well drillers in a given area can confirm the actual
> makeup of the ground your working on. If a local driller with a history
> tells me I'm going through 6 water tables in the first 150', I can be
> assured a shallower well will produce quite nicely. If it's dry sand, I'm
> going deeper. If it's through an Iron Vein or Granite, I'm reconsidering
> vertical altogether.
> Horizontal works well, but again you have to know your ground.
> Will drip lines help?
> Should I trench or bore?
> Is the frost line 36", 48" 60" more???
> How about those pond loops?
> Climate Master is a fine midrange piece of equipment, there are better, &
> there are worse...
> All Mfgrs will extol their virtues, it's up to the buyer & the installer
to
> get the most out of any of them.
> goodluck
> geothermaljones
> > wrote:
> >> I have to agree, except for some of it...
> >> geothermaljones
> > I realize you do not post here for my benefit, but I would really
> > appreciate your comments on what you disagree with. I am trying to
> > decide how to reduce my heating costs. First is insulating and
> > sealing where the builder did not. But I am trying to lurk here and
> > learn enough that I can make some intelligent decisions and not
> > contract with someone who is incompetent.
> > Dan
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Posted by geothermaljones on February 10, 2009, 6:47 pm
I can see how a controlled freeze could "descale" some of the mineral build
up...
You & I might give it a try (on our own systems?) but I'd be nervous to
suggest it to others.
What kind of prefiltration do you have in the feeder line?
I mentioned the variable speed pump simply because it can save a good 25%
(or more) in electric consumption.
I'm wanting to swap one in soon on my own place, as I've got a 2'rnd +3'
tall pressure tank in my mech room,
with a variable speed pump, I'll have a "shoe box" sized unit wall mounted,
leaving more room for my buffer tank...
I've seen the lawn sprinkler valves used allot.
I've got a buddy that threw a chilled water coil on his uncles "summer
cabin" furnace.
He runs the well water through it when it gets hot, has a sprinkler system
in the yard...
Cabin cool, grass watered, kids soaked & happy.
Of course here in MN (especially the northern regions) our summer cooling
hours can be around 250 or so.
geothermaljones
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Posted by dcaster@krl.org on February 10, 2009, 7:10 pm
wrote:
> I mentioned the variable speed pump simply because it can save a good 25%
> (or more) in electric consumption.
> I've seen the lawn sprinkler valves used allot.
> I've got a buddy that threw a chilled water coil on his uncles "summer
> cabin" furnace.
> He runs the well water through it when it gets hot, has a sprinkler system
> in the yard...
> Cabin cool, grass watered, kids soaked & happy.
> Of course here in MN (especially the northern regions) our summer cooling
> hours can be around 250 or so.
> geothermaljones
I have been thinking of putting a chilled water coil in my house.
There is a spring fairly close to house, but I need to measure the
flow and temperature before doing anything rash. A variable speed
motor for the furnace blower seems like a better idea than a on/off
thermostat.
Thanks to both you and Bipolar Bear for the information.
Dan
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Posted by geothermaljones on February 10, 2009, 7:20 pm
If you've got decent flow & a temp lower than 50dF you should get some
decent cooling.
Warmer temps & slower flow, well... you'll figure it out.
Above 50dF you won't get much & no real dehumidification...
geothermaljones
> wrote:
>> I mentioned the variable speed pump simply because it can save a good 25%
>> (or more) in electric consumption.
>> I've seen the lawn sprinkler valves used allot.
>> I've got a buddy that threw a chilled water coil on his uncles "summer
>> cabin" furnace.
>> He runs the well water through it when it gets hot, has a sprinkler
>> system
>> in the yard...
>> Cabin cool, grass watered, kids soaked & happy.
>> Of course here in MN (especially the northern regions) our summer cooling
>> hours can be around 250 or so.
>> geothermaljones
> I have been thinking of putting a chilled water coil in my house.
> There is a spring fairly close to house, but I need to measure the
> flow and temperature before doing anything rash. A variable speed
> motor for the furnace blower seems like a better idea than a on/off
> thermostat.
> Thanks to both you and Bipolar Bear for the information.
> Dan
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