HVAC condenser replacement

Posted by Zyp on September 1, 2008, 11:35 pm

KJPRO wrote:

>> I lost my HVAC compressor because my heat pump system lost its Freon
>> R22 two times (Tube breakage in the condenser unit). Oil may be
>> lost with the Freon, except when there is very small seeping leaks
>> where only gas leaks out. After fixing the leaks, my certified HVAC
>> technician did not add any make-up oil when he evacuated and
>> recharged my system.
>> Air conditioners and heat pumps compressors must have oil to
>> lubricate them. I do not find any place on the web where some
>> replacement fresh Freon R-22 contains lubricating oil: or oil
>> injection tools for adding oil.
>> Carrier is deceiving on using the R-410 Freon, one place it states
>> that units are up to 19 Seer/9 HSPF and than they states the units
>> are 14.0SEER/8.2 HSPF or higher. Which one is it? Carrier developed
>> the R-410 Freon and sold EPA on requiring it.
>> (http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/acheatpumps/heatpumps/
>> infinity.shtml ----http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/heating-air-
>> conditioning/410-puron-vs-r-22-refrigerant-31482.html)
>> Carrier does not have replacement units for their older systems.
>> Also, Carrier does not maintain detail information on the older
>> systems. They like you to buy new systems whenever something fails.
>> I do not believe that replacements must be the same brand. They say
>> this so that you buy their brand.
>> Are there any 5-ton heat pump replacement condenser units available
>> for a home HVAC system? I need a 5-ton condenser unit that have a 2
>> stage compressor, and use R22 Freon.

> Just another *uninformed* poster, posting inaccurate information!

ROFL

--
Zyp

Posted by Gate on September 7, 2008, 1:35 pm

> I lost my HVAC compressor because my heat pump system lost its Freon
> R22 two times (Tube breakage in the condenser unit). Oil may be lost
> with the Freon, except when there is very small seeping leaks where
> only gas leaks out. After fixing the leaks, my certified HVAC
> technician did not add any make-up oil when he evacuated and recharged
> my system.
> Air conditioners and heat pumps compressors must have oil to lubricate
> them. I do not find any place on the web where some replacement fresh
> Freon R-22 contains lubricating oil: or oil injection tools for adding
> oil.

R-22 is a mineral oil based refrigerant. It contains a small amount of =
mineral oil as a "component" for general lubrication. Just open a gauge =
hose with the container upside down (liquid) and blow some into a rag - =
it's very oily.

This is the oil you see, not the oil contained within the compressor's =
crankcase; unless the comrpessor "blew" and that's another story, but =
not something you've described in this topic.

> Carrier is deceiving on using the R-410 Freon, one place it states
> that units are up to 19 Seer/9 HSPF and than they states the units
> are 14.0SEER/8.2 HSPF or higher. Which one is it?

Depends upon how much money you wish to spend, the higher the SEER the =
more expense.
Just as with gas furnaces that have ither an 80.x% compared to a 90.x% - =
but the gas (fuel) is just the same.

>Carrier developed
> the R-410 Freon and sold EPA on requiring it.
> (http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/acheatpumps/heatpumps/
> infinity.shtml ----http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/heating-air-
> conditioning/410-puron-vs-r-22-refrigerant-31482.html)

That's ignorant, any Google or Wikipedia search will display the =
inventor of R-410a but I'll sum it up:

In 1991 Honeywell (then known as AlliedSignal - brand name: =
Genetron) announced its solution,
a remarkably efficient refrigerant which we called AZ-20=AE =
refrigerant,
and which was later assigned the generic name R-410A. After years =
of effort,
and a cooperative development program with the air conditioner =
manufacturer
Carrier Corporation, the first air conditioners using R-410A were =
launched
in 1995 under the name PURON.
(http://www51.honeywell.com/sm/410a/about-us/az-story.html)

> Carrier does not have replacement units for their older systems.

Depends upon the age, 5 years old? Sure they do. 30 years old? Sorry, =
but the tie has come.
Try geting a condensor coil (replacement) for your 10 year old =
refrigerator...

> Also, Carrier does not maintain detail information on the older
> systems. They like you to buy new systems whenever something fails. I
> do not believe that replacements must be the same brand. They say
> this so that you buy their brand.

How old is your car, washer, dryer, refrigerator, stove, etc... ?
Why does everyone think that a furnace and air conditioner must out-live =
the life of the structure they are installed to? They are nothing more =
than *home appliances*
Concerning "detailed information" compare an installation manual of most =
other brands to Carrier (Bryant) and you'll be amazed at the detail of =
information. Also, old material is still available for example the 58GC =
series gas furnace, from 1971, and the installation manual is still =
available for it today:
58GA,GC Upflow Gas-Fired Furnaces - =
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/58ga=
,gc-2si.pdf

> Are there any 5-ton heat pump replacement condenser units available
> for a home HVAC system? I need a 5-ton condenser unit that have a 2
> stage compressor, and use R22 Freon.

R-410a is becomming the replacement in the manufacturing phase because =
Carier had the balls to experiment with it while the rest of the =
industry sat back to watch how things turned out. It seems that AZ-20 / =
R-410a / Puron works quite well, so now everyone else is standing in =
line.

There are drop-in replacements for R-22 such as:
http://www.fieldchem.com/default.aspx?PageID=3D487
but try to get a set of manifold gauges and a TP chart for these other =
"friendly" refrigerants.

As far as a 2-stage R-22 heat pump, they're still available. (good luck)
But, with companies like Carrier who [all] are under guidelines by the =
gov. to stop producing R-22 systems, Bryant / Carrier have pretty much =
stopped already, though the cheaper single stage units are still readily =
available:
http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/acheatpumps/heatpumps/comfort=
.shtml

But ask yourself "Why?"
Unless this is an investment/ rental property why go with R-22 (or even =
a 2-stage unit for that matter)?

Cars are changing, getting smaller, more MPG, blah, blah.
HVAC equipment is changing too, get used to it.
Change is good; even "bad" change.

Posted by Stormin Mormon on September 7, 2008, 9:04 pm

That's not what I understand about the matter. The refrigerant in my tanks
is a liquified gas, with no oil.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

R-22 is a mineral oil based refrigerant. It contains a small amount of
mineral oil as a "component" for general lubrication. Just open a gauge hose
with the container upside down (liquid) and blow some into a rag - it's very
oily.

This is the oil you see, not the oil contained within the compressor's
crankcase; unless the comrpessor "blew" and that's another story, but not
something you've described in this topic.

Posted by A. K. SEPUT on September 8, 2008, 9:37 am

R-22 is a mineral oil based refrigerant. It contains a small amount of
mineral oil as a "component" for general lubrication. Just open a gauge hose
with the container upside down (liquid) and blow some into a rag - it's very
oily.

This is the oil you see, not the oil contained within the compressor's
crankcase; unless the comrpessor "blew" and that's another story, but not
something you've described in this topic.

> Carrier is deceiving on using the R-410 Freon, one place it states
> that units are up to 19 Seer/9 HSPF and than they states the units
> are 14.0SEER/8.2 HSPF or higher. Which one is it?

Depends upon how much money you wish to spend, the higher the SEER the more
expense.
Just as with gas furnaces that have ither an 80.x% compared to a 90.x% - but
the gas (fuel) is just the same.

That's ignorant, any Google or Wikipedia search will display the inventor of
R-410a but I'll sum it up:

In 1991 Honeywell (then known as AlliedSignal - brand name: Genetron)
announced its solution,
a remarkably efficient refrigerant which we called AZ-20® refrigerant,
and which was later assigned the generic name R-410A. After years of
effort,
and a cooperative development program with the air conditioner
manufacturer
Carrier Corporation, the first air conditioners using R-410A were
launched
in 1995 under the name PURON.
(http://www51.honeywell.com/sm/410a/about-us/az-story.html)

> Carrier does not have replacement units for their older systems.

Depends upon the age, 5 years old? Sure they do. 30 years old? Sorry, but
the tie has come.
Try geting a condensor coil (replacement) for your 10 year old
refrigerator...

How old is your car, washer, dryer, refrigerator, stove, etc... ?
Why does everyone think that a furnace and air conditioner must out-live the
life of the structure they are installed to?

Hi sorry but I to some degree do not agree with you
heating and air condition systems are part of structure
while appliance are not, plug in and plug out is not
part of structure that is difference.
heating and AC should have 20 years minimum life
span and not five years or ten
Tony

They are nothing more than *home appliances*
Concerning "detailed information" compare an installation manual of most
other brands to Carrier (Bryant) and you'll be amazed at the detail of
information. Also, old material is still available for example the 58GC
series gas furnace, from 1971, and the installation manual is still
available for it today:
58GA,GC Upflow Gas-Fired Furnaces -
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/58ga,gc-2si.pdf

> Are there any 5-ton heat pump replacement condenser units available
> for a home HVAC system? I need a 5-ton condenser unit that have a 2
> stage compressor, and use R22 Freon.

R-410a is becomming the replacement in the manufacturing phase because
Carier had the balls to experiment with it while the rest of the industry
sat back to watch how things turned out. It seems that AZ-20 / R-410a /
Puron works quite well, so now everyone else is standing in line.

There are drop-in replacements for R-22 such as:
http://www.fieldchem.com/default.aspx?PageID=487
but try to get a set of manifold gauges and a TP chart for these other
"friendly" refrigerants.

As far as a 2-stage R-22 heat pump, they're still available. (good luck)
But, with companies like Carrier who [all] are under guidelines by the gov.
to stop producing R-22 systems, Bryant / Carrier have pretty much stopped
already, though the cheaper single stage units are still readily available:
http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/acheatpumps/heatpumps/comfort.shtml

But ask yourself "Why?"
Unless this is an investment/ rental property why go with R-22 (or even a
2-stage unit for that matter)?

Cars are changing, getting smaller, more MPG, blah, blah.
HVAC equipment is changing too, get used to it.
Change is good; even "bad" change.

Page 2 of 2 << first < 1 2

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