Heat Exchanger question

Posted by geoman on July 5, 2006, 11:17 am

We are hooking up a unit that was relocated. In the piping they have a
refrigerant heat exchanger from liquid to suction.

Air cooled Copeland, inside unit outside they want us to convert.

I stated that they have to put a fan on the compressor, put a suction line
accumulator on it, crankcase heater and fan cycling since it gets zero up
here in Ohio. BTW, its 404A

Question is, Didn't Jim Lavell (Spelling) once say he didn't like heat
exchangers on the new refrigerants? Should I take it out?
What's the rules for heat exchangers?

I think Jim may have stated that it could be a problem with those with
glides but I can't remember. Heck, I'm not sure if it was Jim that mentioned
it either, but I know I heard it.

Thanks
Rich

Posted by DIDO on July 5, 2006, 2:51 pm

Rich I don't like you attitude but here is advice for you anyway!

#1 Heater exchanger you are talking about is liquid sub-cooler
#2 I know Ohio gets little cool but where compressor and receiver
is going to be located inside or out
#3 what is range of temperature is going to be used on
#4 When unit reaches desire temperature will it remain running
or will it cycle off at that temperature.

For out side commercial job let say -20F.
yes you should have accumulator and in addition it must have
liquid solenoid valve which it should be on pressure switch
activated at low pressure allowing compressor to pump down
before it start to cool. yes you fan should be control by pressure
switch in addition if unit will run continually you should also have
head master vale. yes if compressor is out side you should have
crankcase heater. yes if condenser and receiver is out side receiver
also should have heater rap around.
yes if is using oil separator it also should have raped around
heater controlled by compressors discharge temperature.
If anybody dispute this I am tell them to flush they heads down
toilet bowl these are facts of life like it or not.
Good luck from Dido

> We are hooking up a unit that was relocated. In the piping they have a
> refrigerant heat exchanger from liquid to suction.
> Air cooled Copeland, inside unit outside they want us to convert.
> I stated that they have to put a fan on the compressor, put a suction line
> accumulator on it, crankcase heater and fan cycling since it gets zero up
> here in Ohio. BTW, its 404A
> Question is, Didn't Jim Lavell (Spelling) once say he didn't like heat
> exchangers on the new refrigerants? Should I take it out?
> What's the rules for heat exchangers?
> I think Jim may have stated that it could be a problem with those with
> glides but I can't remember. Heck, I'm not sure if it was Jim that
> mentioned it either, but I know I heard it.
> Thanks
> Rich
>

Posted by geoman on July 5, 2006, 4:01 pm

> Rich I don't like you attitude but here is advice for you anyway!
> #1 Heater exchanger you are talking about is liquid sub-cooler

Your correct, I wasn't thinking straight, pulled an all nighter on a cooler
job. Marks been really sick on and off lately. But this is what I'm talking
about

> #2 I know Ohio gets little cool but where compressor and receiver
> is going to be located inside or out

Outside, I don't have a problem with low ambient conditions, the point I'm
weary of is the Liquid Sub-Cooler. Now that I think of it, I think it was a
Copeland Rep that said not to use them with the gases that have glides. I
'think' it was a Copeland rep, this was from a long way back.

> #3 what is range of temperature is going to be used on

Freezer, -10F inside, outside 100F down to -20F

> #4 When unit reaches desire temperature will it remain running
> or will it cycle off at that temperature.

Pump down

> For out side commercial job let say -20F.
> yes you should have accumulator and in addition it must have
> liquid solenoid valve which it should be on pressure switch
> activated at low pressure allowing compressor to pump down
> before it start to cool. yes you fan should be control by pressure
> switch in addition if unit will run continually you should also have
> head master vale. yes if compressor is out side you should have
> crankcase heater. yes if condenser and receiver is out side receiver
> also should have heater rap around.
> yes if is using oil separator it also should have raped around
> heater controlled by compressors discharge temperature.
> If anybody dispute this I am tell them to flush they heads down
> toilet bowl these are facts of life like it or not.

What about the sub cooler? As I mentioned, I understand all the above
criteria, but what about a sub cooler

RIch

> Good luck from Dido

There is no such thing as luck, everything is predestined.

>> We are hooking up a unit that was relocated. In the piping they have a
>> refrigerant heat exchanger from liquid to suction.
>> Air cooled Copeland, inside unit outside they want us to convert.
>> I stated that they have to put a fan on the compressor, put a suction
>> line accumulator on it, crankcase heater and fan cycling since it gets
>> zero up here in Ohio. BTW, its 404A
>> Question is, Didn't Jim Lavell (Spelling) once say he didn't like heat
>> exchangers on the new refrigerants? Should I take it out?
>> What's the rules for heat exchangers?
>> I think Jim may have stated that it could be a problem with those with
>> glides but I can't remember. Heck, I'm not sure if it was Jim that
>> mentioned it either, but I know I heard it.
>> Thanks
>> Rich

Posted by DIDO on July 5, 2006, 8:37 pm

>> Rich I don't like you attitude but here is advice for you anyway!
>> #1 Heater exchanger you are talking about is liquid sub-cooler

> Your correct, I wasn't thinking straight, pulled an all nighter on a
> cooler job. Marks been really sick on and off lately. But this is what I'm
> talking about

>> #2 I know Ohio gets little cool but where compressor and receiver
>> is going to be located inside or out

> Outside, I don't have a problem with low ambient conditions, the point I'm
> weary of is the Liquid Sub-Cooler. Now that I think of it, I think it was
> a Copeland Rep that said not to use them with the gases that have glides.
> I 'think' it was a Copeland rep, this was from a long way back.

>> #3 what is range of temperature is going to be used on

> Freezer, -10F inside, outside 100F down to -20F

>> #4 When unit reaches desire temperature will it remain running
>> or will it cycle off at that temperature.

> Pump down

>> For out side commercial job let say -20F.
>> yes you should have accumulator and in addition it must have
>> liquid solenoid valve which it should be on pressure switch
>> activated at low pressure allowing compressor to pump down
>> before it start to cool. yes you fan should be control by pressure
>> switch in addition if unit will run continually you should also have
>> head master vale. yes if compressor is out side you should have
>> crankcase heater. yes if condenser and receiver is out side receiver
>> also should have heater rap around.
>> yes if is using oil separator it also should have raped around
>> heater controlled by compressors discharge temperature.
>> If anybody dispute this I am tell them to flush they heads down
>> toilet bowl these are facts of life like it or not.

> What about the sub cooler? As I mentioned, I understand all the above
> criteria, but what about a sub cooler

For this temperature you do not need sub cooler
if you were running down to -40f. I would say it would be
good idea to have sub cooler but not what you are running at
Dido.

> RIch

>> Good luck from Dido

> There is no such thing as luck, everything is predestined.

>>> We are hooking up a unit that was relocated. In the piping they have a
>>> refrigerant heat exchanger from liquid to suction.
>>> Air cooled Copeland, inside unit outside they want us to convert.
>>> I stated that they have to put a fan on the compressor, put a suction
>>> line accumulator on it, crankcase heater and fan cycling since it gets
>>> zero up here in Ohio. BTW, its 404A
>>> Question is, Didn't Jim Lavell (Spelling) once say he didn't like heat
>>> exchangers on the new refrigerants? Should I take it out?
>>> What's the rules for heat exchangers?
>>> I think Jim may have stated that it could be a problem with those with
>>> glides but I can't remember. Heck, I'm not sure if it was Jim that
>>> mentioned it either, but I know I heard it.
>>> Thanks
>>> Rich

Posted by lp13-30 on July 6, 2006, 11:50 pm

I have wondered why people in the North do not rig up a system with a
condenser inside and also one outside and use something similar to a
reversing valve to switch from one to the other as temperatures
dictated. You would not have the problems with low ambient, and the heat
inside would be beneficial a fair amount of time. Here, low ambient is
not a problem, and the heat inside would be beneficial for so little
time that it would not be practical. Heck, maybe they do have systems
like that already. I have heard they have heat reclaim systems on
supermarkets and such. I have never done any large refrigeration, and
been in S. Tx for over 50 years, so I dunno. Just curious, Larry

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