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Posted by bud-- on November 13, 2008, 2:55 pm
Boden wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> bud-- wrote:
>> Don Ocean wrote:
>>> bud-- wrote:
>>>> On one side is an engineer (registered professional engineer in
>>>> several states) who is a consultant and project manager in
>>>> environmental areas and certified in asbestos removal who says
>>>> homeowners can remove asbestos.
>>>> Also explicit information from several state governments sites and
>>>> other agencies provided by trader that says that says homeowners can
>>>> remove asbestos.
>>> Thats the dumbest argument I have ever heard. I retired the first
>>> time as a chief Engineer With National registry. My guess is that a
>>> Chief Engineer should fire a so called professional that led Home
>>> owners into such a health threatening situation.
>> .
>> My source is not a boiler engineer. He has a 4 year college degree in
>> engineering, has the required experience in the field, and has passed
>> the professional engineer tests to become a professional engineer.
>> .
>>> A real Engineer would be well aware of the Liability that he has
>>> opened the door to.
>> .
>> As a professional engineer he is, of course, aware of liability issues.
>> Still missing (what a surprise) - any links to government sites that
>> say homeowners are not allowed to remove asbestos in their homes.
>> If we follow Noon-Air's advice and look at state government pages we
>> find the sites trader has posted that say a homeowner can remove
>> asbestos in their homes. It is stupid to think a state would give
>> advice that is contrary to federal law. A homeowner of course needs to
>> find out the requirements including disposal.
>> Not part of my argument - my guess is the regulations under 29CFR/OSHA
>> apply to workplace safety and not outside the workplace - at home. EPA
>> regulations, which include disposal, do. (That is also what clare said.)
> Please don't attribute too much to the fact that someone is a
> Professional Engineer. It is more like a guild system than one which
> guarantees knowledge and ability.
He owned a company with something like 20 employees. Over half the work
was in environmental areas - defining the nature and extent of a
problem, designing a remediation plan, and getting the plan through the
regulatory maze. In some cases also doing the cleanup work.
Most of the remaining work was also related to regulatory compliance
like worker and community right-to-know, confined space entry, ....
The common thread is knowing and applying government regulations.
--
bud--
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Posted by Steve on November 12, 2008, 11:02 pm
show/hide quoted text
> Don Ocean wrote:
>> bud-- wrote:
>>> On one side is an engineer (registered professional engineer in several
>>> states) who is a consultant and project manager in environmental areas
>>> and certified in asbestos removal who says homeowners can remove
>>> asbestos.
>>> Also explicit information from several state governments sites and other
>>> agencies provided by trader that says that says homeowners can remove
>>> asbestos.
>> Thats the dumbest argument I have ever heard. I retired the first time as
>> a chief Engineer With National registry. My guess is that a Chief
>> Engineer should fire a so called professional that led Home owners into
>> such a health threatening situation.
> .
> My source is not a boiler engineer. He has a 4 year college degree in
> engineering, has the required experience in the field, and has passed the
> professional engineer tests to become a professional engineer.
> .
>> A real Engineer would be well aware of the Liability that he has opened
>> the door to.
> .
> As a professional engineer he is, of course, aware of liability issues.
> Still missing (what a surprise) - any links to government sites that say
> homeowners are not allowed to remove asbestos in their homes.
> If we follow Noon-Air's advice and look at state government pages we find
> the sites trader has posted that say a homeowner can remove asbestos in
> their homes. It is stupid to think a state would give advice that is
> contrary to federal law. A homeowner of course needs to find out the
> requirements including disposal.
> Not part of my argument - my guess is the regulations under 29CFR/OSHA
> apply to workplace safety and not outside the workplace - at home. EPA
> regulations, which include disposal, do. (That is also what clare said.)
http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html#dosdonts
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Posted by trader4 on November 13, 2008, 8:23 am
show/hide quoted text
> > Don Ocean wrote:
> >> bud-- wrote:
> >>> On one side is an engineer (registered professional engineer in sever=
> >>> states) who is a consultant and project manager in environmental area=
> >>> and certified in asbestos removal who says homeowners can remove
> >>> asbestos.
> >>> Also explicit information from several state governments sites and ot=
her
show/hide quoted text
> >>> agencies provided by trader that says that says homeowners can remove
> >>> asbestos.
> >> Thats the dumbest argument I have ever heard. I retired the first time=
as
show/hide quoted text
> >> a chief Engineer With National registry. My guess is that a Chief
> >> Engineer should fire a so called professional that led Home owners int=
> >> such a health threatening situation.
> > .
> > My source is not a boiler engineer. =A0He has a 4 year college degree i=
> > engineering, has the required experience in the field, and has passed t=
> > professional engineer tests to become a professional engineer.
> > .
> >> A real Engineer would be well aware of the Liability that he has opene=
> >> the door to.
> > .
> > As a professional engineer he is, of course, aware of liability issues.
> > Still missing (what a surprise) - any links to government sites that sa=
> > homeowners are not allowed to remove asbestos in their homes.
> > If we follow Noon-Air's advice and look at state government pages we fi=
> > the sites trader has posted that say a homeowner can remove asbestos in
> > their homes. It is stupid to think a state would give advice that is
> > contrary to federal law. A homeowner of course needs to find out the
> > requirements including disposal.
> > Not part of my argument - my guess is the regulations under 29CFR/OSHA
> > apply to workplace safety and not outside the workplace - at home. EPA
> > regulations, which include disposal, do. (That is also what clare said.=
> http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/pubs/ashome.html#dosdonts- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Notice you posted this link, without comment. And that is likely
because that link, which I had seen days ago when I first started
looking for the truth, doesn't say it's illegal for a homeowner to
remove asbestos in their own home. It only says "should". It also
says it's RECOMMENDED that minor repair be done by professionals
too. Are you going to try to claim that makes repair work illegal
too?
Clearly, if it were illegal, the EPA would just come out and say that,
not leave it to tea leave readers. Saying removal and repair should
be done by people trained and qualified in handling asbestos, is
similar to some auto advice site saying brake repair should be done by
people trained and qualified in auto repair. Does that mean there's
a federal law making it illegal to work on the brakes of your own car?
BTW, depending on the type of asbestos product, the extent of it, etc,
there are certainly many cases where I would agree with the EPA's
advice that a homeowner should get professionals to do it. But that
doesn't make it illegal under federal law to DIY.
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Posted by trader4 on November 14, 2008, 10:02 am
show/hide quoted text
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:23:14 -0800 (PST), trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> >BTW, depending on the type of asbestos product, the extent of it, etc,
> >there are certainly many cases where I would agree with the EPA's
> >advice that a homeowner should get professionals to do it. =A0 But that
> >doesn't make it illegal under federal law to DIY.
> No one gives a shit. =A0Why don't you go snort a fistful of asbestos
> dust.
Apparently you do, because you replied, didn't you?
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Posted by ftwhd@home.com on November 14, 2008, 4:44 pm
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 07:02:28 -0800 (PST), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>> On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:23:14 -0800 (PST), trad...@optonline.net wrote:
>> >BTW, depending on the type of asbestos product, the extent of it, etc,
>> >there are certainly many cases where I would agree with the EPA's
>> >advice that a homeowner should get professionals to do it. But that
>> >doesn't make it illegal under federal law to DIY.
>> No one gives a shit. Why don't you go snort a fistful of asbestos
>> dust.
>Apparently you do, because you replied, didn't you?
Don't mistake a reply for caring, fool.
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>> Don Ocean wrote:
>>> bud-- wrote:
>>>> On one side is an engineer (registered professional engineer in
>>>> several states) who is a consultant and project manager in
>>>> environmental areas and certified in asbestos removal who says
>>>> homeowners can remove asbestos.
>>>> Also explicit information from several state governments sites and
>>>> other agencies provided by trader that says that says homeowners can
>>>> remove asbestos.
>>> Thats the dumbest argument I have ever heard. I retired the first
>>> time as a chief Engineer With National registry. My guess is that a
>>> Chief Engineer should fire a so called professional that led Home
>>> owners into such a health threatening situation.
>> .
>> My source is not a boiler engineer. He has a 4 year college degree in
>> engineering, has the required experience in the field, and has passed
>> the professional engineer tests to become a professional engineer.
>> .
>>> A real Engineer would be well aware of the Liability that he has
>>> opened the door to.
>> .
>> As a professional engineer he is, of course, aware of liability issues.
>> Still missing (what a surprise) - any links to government sites that
>> say homeowners are not allowed to remove asbestos in their homes.
>> If we follow Noon-Air's advice and look at state government pages we
>> find the sites trader has posted that say a homeowner can remove
>> asbestos in their homes. It is stupid to think a state would give
>> advice that is contrary to federal law. A homeowner of course needs to
>> find out the requirements including disposal.
>> Not part of my argument - my guess is the regulations under 29CFR/OSHA
>> apply to workplace safety and not outside the workplace - at home. EPA
>> regulations, which include disposal, do. (That is also what clare said.)
> Please don't attribute too much to the fact that someone is a
> Professional Engineer. It is more like a guild system than one which
> guarantees knowledge and ability.