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Posted by The King on July 28, 2009, 8:15 pm
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:08:10 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
>I've seen R-22 in medium temp coolers, several times. Worked
>on a few, too.
Comfort cooling isnt med temp. Youre off topic.
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Posted by The King on July 28, 2009, 8:13 pm
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:53:04 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>The King wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:03:56 -0700 (PDT), Lars S
>>
>>> On 28 Juli, 14:29, "Stormin Mormon"
>>>> Hmm. So, you'd need a low temp referigerant, to absorb heat
>>>> at low temps. R-22 could work.
>>>> --
>>>> Christopher A. Young
>>>> Learn more about Jesus
>>>> www.lds.org
>>>> .
>>>> No, this is a heat pump project, the evaporator is approx
>>>> 50m copper
>>>> tube in the soil, the condenser is indoors blowing hot air.
>>>> These
>>>> systems are quite common up in our arctic regions.
>>>> For me it is a low cost project were I can find most of the
>>>> parts for
>>>> free since I work in conjuction with a refrigeration
>>>> company.
>>>> /Lars S
>>> Yes R22 should work and also it should work with the mineral based oil
>>> in the compressor...but R22 is forbidden and not available in my
>>> country since about 10 years :=(
>>> The gas to use in these applications nowdays is (normally) R407C, wery
>>> similar to R22 in pressure etc but ester oil is needed.
>>> /Lars S
>>
>> You could use NU-22 as a R22 replacement and you can use mineral oil
>> with it. BTW Stormy is a idiot posing as a hvac tech as his remark
>> about using a low temp ref shows. R-22 is not typically used in a low
>> temp applications. It can be used as such but it has special needs
>> when its used in low temp apps. Your application would be considered
>> high temp. Its all about evap temps not boiling points like the dumb
>> ass mormon thinks.
>Whenever I've used R22 in low temp applications, hell,
>even in refrigeration medium temp applications I always
>have to have a defrost system. A lot of the Domino's
>Pizza stores switched over to R22 in the walk-in coolers
>some years back and they all have to have defrost systems.
>I have to rebuild one here soon.
>TDD
Most of the time med temp ref is off cycle defrost. I suppose Dominos
wants 34 or cooler? as a target temp so a clock might be needed. In a
36-40F box you shouldnt need anything but off cycle lessen it isnt
sized or adjusted right.
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Posted by The Daring Dufas on July 28, 2009, 11:16 pm
The King wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:53:04 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>
>> The King wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:03:56 -0700 (PDT), Lars S
>>>> On 28 Juli, 14:29, "Stormin Mormon"
>>>>> Hmm. So, you'd need a low temp referigerant, to absorb heat
>>>>> at low temps. R-22 could work.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christopher A. Young
>>>>> Learn more about Jesus
>>>>> www.lds.org
>>>>> .
>>>>> No, this is a heat pump project, the evaporator is approx
>>>>> 50m copper
>>>>> tube in the soil, the condenser is indoors blowing hot air.
>>>>> These
>>>>> systems are quite common up in our arctic regions.
>>>>> For me it is a low cost project were I can find most of the
>>>>> parts for
>>>>> free since I work in conjuction with a refrigeration
>>>>> company.
>>>>> /Lars S
>>>> Yes R22 should work and also it should work with the mineral based oil
>>>> in the compressor...but R22 is forbidden and not available in my
>>>> country since about 10 years :=(
>>>> The gas to use in these applications nowdays is (normally) R407C, wery
>>>> similar to R22 in pressure etc but ester oil is needed.
>>>> /Lars S
>>> You could use NU-22 as a R22 replacement and you can use mineral oil
>>> with it. BTW Stormy is a idiot posing as a hvac tech as his remark
>>> about using a low temp ref shows. R-22 is not typically used in a low
>>> temp applications. It can be used as such but it has special needs
>>> when its used in low temp apps. Your application would be considered
>>> high temp. Its all about evap temps not boiling points like the dumb
>>> ass mormon thinks.
>> Whenever I've used R22 in low temp applications, hell,
>> even in refrigeration medium temp applications I always
>> have to have a defrost system. A lot of the Domino's
>> Pizza stores switched over to R22 in the walk-in coolers
>> some years back and they all have to have defrost systems.
>> I have to rebuild one here soon.
>> TDD
>
> Most of the time med temp ref is off cycle defrost. I suppose Dominos
> wants 34 or cooler? as a target temp so a clock might be needed. In a
> 36-40F box you shouldnt need anything but off cycle lessen it isnt
> sized or adjusted right.
The R22 walk-in coolers come from the factory with defrost
timers. In order to get the 33-40 box temps, the evap runs
a lot colder and of course the darn door does not stay shut.
I like to set them at 35 because of all the meat products
they stock and of course it helps keep the food temps where
the health dept likes to see them with the door being open
so much. I have one at a store I service that was an R12
system originally, it's now running on 416a and keeps on
running better than most. It has a three phase semi hermetic
compressor, large receiver and pump down control, it's very
reliable because it was installed CORRECTLY. The crap I
see when some (techs?) throw them in is astounding. Oh darn,
there goes my blood pressure.
TDD
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Posted by The King on July 29, 2009, 6:13 am
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:16:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>The King wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:53:04 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>>>>> /Lars S
>>>> You could use NU-22 as a R22 replacement and you can use mineral oil
>>>> with it. BTW Stormy is a idiot posing as a hvac tech as his remark
>>>> about using a low temp ref shows. R-22 is not typically used in a low
>>>> temp applications. It can be used as such but it has special needs
>>>> when its used in low temp apps. Your application would be considered
>>>> high temp. Its all about evap temps not boiling points like the dumb
>>>> ass mormon thinks.
>>> Whenever I've used R22 in low temp applications, hell,
>>> even in refrigeration medium temp applications I always
>>> have to have a defrost system. A lot of the Domino's
>>> Pizza stores switched over to R22 in the walk-in coolers
>>> some years back and they all have to have defrost systems.
>>> I have to rebuild one here soon.
>>> TDD
>>
>> Most of the time med temp ref is off cycle defrost. I suppose Dominos
>> wants 34 or cooler? as a target temp so a clock might be needed. In a
>> 36-40F box you shouldnt need anything but off cycle lessen it isnt
>> sized or adjusted right.
>The R22 walk-in coolers come from the factory with defrost
>timers. In order to get the 33-40 box temps, the evap runs
>a lot colder and of course the darn door does not stay shut.
>I like to set them at 35 because of all the meat products
>they stock and of course it helps keep the food temps where
>the health dept likes to see them with the door being open
>so much. I have one at a store I service that was an R12
>system originally, it's now running on 416a and keeps on
>running better than most. It has a three phase semi hermetic
>compressor, large receiver and pump down control, it's very
>reliable because it was installed CORRECTLY. The crap I
>see when some (techs?) throw them in is astounding. Oh darn,
>there goes my blood pressure.
>TDD
Evaporator temperatures are the same for the application (low - med -
high temp) regardless of what ref is used. R 12 med temp evaps run
at the same temperatures as an R 22 med temp evap. No need for a
defrost clock just because it has R 22 in it. There may be other
reasons for a defrost clock but the type of ref isnt one of them.
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Posted by The King on July 29, 2009, 6:51 am
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:13:58 -0400, The King
>On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:16:27 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>>The King wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:53:04 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>>>>>> /Lars S
>>>>> You could use NU-22 as a R22 replacement and you can use mineral oil
>>>>> with it. BTW Stormy is a idiot posing as a hvac tech as his remark
>>>>> about using a low temp ref shows. R-22 is not typically used in a low
>>>>> temp applications. It can be used as such but it has special needs
>>>>> when its used in low temp apps. Your application would be considered
>>>>> high temp. Its all about evap temps not boiling points like the dumb
>>>>> ass mormon thinks.
>>>> Whenever I've used R22 in low temp applications, hell,
>>>> even in refrigeration medium temp applications I always
>>>> have to have a defrost system. A lot of the Domino's
>>>> Pizza stores switched over to R22 in the walk-in coolers
>>>> some years back and they all have to have defrost systems.
>>>> I have to rebuild one here soon.
>>>> TDD
>>>
>>> Most of the time med temp ref is off cycle defrost. I suppose Dominos
>>> wants 34 or cooler? as a target temp so a clock might be needed. In a
>>> 36-40F box you shouldnt need anything but off cycle lessen it isnt
>>> sized or adjusted right.
>>The R22 walk-in coolers come from the factory with defrost
>>timers. In order to get the 33-40 box temps, the evap runs
>>a lot colder and of course the darn door does not stay shut.
>>I like to set them at 35 because of all the meat products
>>they stock and of course it helps keep the food temps where
>>the health dept likes to see them with the door being open
>>so much. I have one at a store I service that was an R12
>>system originally, it's now running on 416a and keeps on
>>running better than most. It has a three phase semi hermetic
>>compressor, large receiver and pump down control, it's very
>>reliable because it was installed CORRECTLY. The crap I
>>see when some (techs?) throw them in is astounding. Oh darn,
>>there goes my blood pressure.
>>TDD
>Evaporator temperatures are the same for the application (low - med -
>high temp) regardless of what ref is used. R 12 med temp evaps run
>at the same temperatures as an R 22 med temp evap. No need for a
>defrost clock just because it has R 22 in it. There may be other
>reasons for a defrost clock but the type of ref isnt one of them.
I have a few beore I leave so heres my parting thoughts on your
defrost problem. I use a 6F differential on the control setting. So
with a 35F box cut out air temp would be 32F and cut in temp would be
38F. So at a target avg of 35.. yeah, you might want a defrost
clock.
I'd bump the temp up a half a degree or so to keep the air temps above
32F. That way you maintain a more consistant box temp which is good
for the product and the consumer.
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>on a few, too.