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How to keep both AC units from working at the same time?

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How to keep both AC units from working at the same time? randall.reed 12-17-2006
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Posted by ran007 on December 18, 2006, 8:08 pm

thrugoodmarshall@hotmail.com wrote:
> Since you weren't specific, let's say that it's just the AC function
> you're trying to interlock and not a heat pump and it's a 24V AC
> system.
> Again, you didn't specify what controls you already have (2 thermostats
> and some sort of txfer switch, I hope) so what follows is really
> academic.
>
> This will get you started.
> Please see the "notes" section for some followup you're going to have
> to do yourself!
> If you want to hack together all these features, you really don't want
> to do it with relays--see again the "notes" section.
>
> In this example, the "Y" wire of the first thermostat turns on the
> compressor or the 5T unit. Connect the coil of a 24VAC relay from the
> "Y" output of that thermostat and the opposite leg of the 24VAC
> transformer.
>
> Similarly, for this example, the "Y" wire of the second thermostat is
> used to turn on the compressor of the 3T unit. Lift the wire from the
> "Y" terminal of that thermostat and land it on the N.C. contact of the
> relay. Connect the common terminal (not the coil common--the common
> for the N.C. contact you just landed!) to the "Y" terminal of the
> second thermostat.
>
> Now, the signal to turn on the 3T compressor has to go through those
> N.C. contacts.
> This will give the 5T unit priority and both units will never be on
> together.
>
> If you want to be able to run both units together when you're not on
> emergency power, just put the N.O. aux contacts of the generator
> transfer switch in series with the coil of the new relay.
>
> Notes:
>
> Fan:
> Typically, the fan output is turned on whenever the thermostat calls
> for AC.
> Depending on your system, you'll have to deal with this.
> One way would be to use a double pole relay and wire the fan signal
> through the other set of N.C. contacts just like the compressor signal.
>
> Restart Lockout:
> You'll probably want to use a restart-lockout relay to prevent the 3T
> unit from starting up again too soon after it's been shut down.
>
> Short-cycle lockout:
> Once the 3T starts, you'd probably want it to finish its cycle before
> dropping for the 5T. You can install this circuit twice, once with the
> 5T as primary and once with the 3T as primary. To prevent relay races,
> wire N.C. contacts between the thermostat output and the relay coils in
> both instances. You get the added benefit of sharing priority equally
> if you do it this way.
>
> However, at this point, relay logic becomes silly. You should be doing
> all this on paper instead of just going out and buying relays, and at
> this point, your design is probably pretty complicated.
>
> Instead, buy a smart relay (a little tiny PLC is what it is) and
> program it however you like. Some sources--www.factorymation.com,
> www.automationdirect.com.
>
> Have fun, and let us know how it turns out.
>
>

I'll consider your nice and comprehensive direction. Thanks!


Posted by DK on December 18, 2006, 10:25 am
On 17 Dec 2006 18:47:49 -0800, randall.reed@gmail.com wrote:

>Alright, so I just had a 20KW generator installed to power the whole
>house. I have two units, 5 Ton and 3 Ton and I don't want them ever to
>run at the same time, because the two would be too much for the 20Kw.
>The units are a year old, and I'm using the Honeywell digital
>thermostats How can I keep the two from ever running at the same
>time? Should I replace the thermostats with two that talk to each
>other, or can the Honeywells do that?

You just need a couple of 24v relays that have a normally closed set
of contacts. Wire each of them in parallel with the active wire
(usually y) and ground of each thermostat and then tie the active
wires thru the NC contacts of the 'OTHER' relay.

The first call from either thermostat will shut off the Y line to the
other thermostat.



Posted by Power's Mechanical on December 18, 2006, 5:18 pm

randall.reed@gmail.com wrote:
> Alright, so I just had a 20KW generator installed to power the whole
> house. I have two units, 5 Ton and 3 Ton and I don't want them ever to
> run at the same time, because the two would be too much for the 20Kw.
> The units are a year old, and I'm using the Honeywell digital
> thermostats How can I keep the two from ever running at the same
> time? Should I replace the thermostats with two that talk to each
> other, or can the Honeywells do that?

On 17 Dec 2006 18:47:49 -0800, randall.reed@gmail.com wrote:

>Alright, so I just had a 20KW generator installed to power the whole
>house. I have two units, 5 Ton and 3 Ton and I don't want them ever to
>run at the same time, because the two would be too much for the 20Kw.
>The units are a year old, and I'm using the Honeywell digital
>thermostats How can I keep the two from ever running at the same
>time? Should I replace the thermostats with two that talk to each
>other, or can the Honeywells do that?

I assume you dont care if they both run when on normal power and its
that if you switch to emergency power when you dont want both units
running.

If that is the case I would have a relay powered off the transfer
switch or generator which would de energize one or the other a/cs.

The relay, when energized, would break the control wire through a set
of N.C. contacts to the condensing unit (your choice) compressor 24v
contactor coil.

Consult the installer of the generator for a specific wiring location
to power up the relay when the generator starts. Done.


Posted by on December 18, 2006, 8:05 pm
"Power's Mechanical" wrote:

>
>randall.reed@gmail.com wrote:
>> Alright, so I just had a 20KW generator installed to power the whole
>> house. I have two units, 5 Ton and 3 Ton and I don't want them ever to
>> run at the same time, because the two would be too much for the 20Kw.
>> The units are a year old, and I'm using the Honeywell digital
>> thermostats How can I keep the two from ever running at the same
>> time? Should I replace the thermostats with two that talk to each
>> other, or can the Honeywells do that?
>
>On 17 Dec 2006 18:47:49 -0800, randall.reed@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Alright, so I just had a 20KW generator installed to power the whole
>>house. I have two units, 5 Ton and 3 Ton and I don't want them ever to
>>run at the same time, because the two would be too much for the 20Kw.
>>The units are a year old, and I'm using the Honeywell digital
>>thermostats How can I keep the two from ever running at the same
>>time? Should I replace the thermostats with two that talk to each
>>other, or can the Honeywells do that?
>
>I assume you dont care if they both run when on normal power and its
>that if you switch to emergency power when you dont want both units
>running.
>
>If that is the case I would have a relay powered off the transfer
>switch or generator which would de energize one or the other a/cs.
>
>The relay, when energized, would break the control wire through a set
>of N.C. contacts to the condensing unit (your choice) compressor 24v
>contactor coil.
>
>Consult the installer of the generator for a specific wiring location
>to power up the relay when the generator starts. Done.


not done.

you're forcing the customer to choose 1 of 2 when he could have both.

the two 24v relays are the best choice. the ho can purchase them off
the web & install them himself. once in place, operation is automatic.

customer has the option of using either ac, but never both at the same
time.

now put a sticky on each t-stat that says:

for ac, turn off the other thermostat

done.

Posted by jamesgangnc on December 19, 2006, 11:56 am
Actually I could see working the third relay into the picture. Use a
115v relay with two nc contacts. Wire it to the generator so it is
pulled when the generator is running. The nc contacts can be used to
bypass the other two relays so that when the generator is not running
both systems can run at the same time. If you have a problem with
hi/low voltages in proximity then add a 24v transformer at the
generator and use a 24v relay for the third one.

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
> "Power's Mechanical" wrote:
>
> >
> >randall.reed@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Alright, so I just had a 20KW generator installed to power the whole
> >> house. I have two units, 5 Ton and 3 Ton and I don't want them ever to
> >> run at the same time, because the two would be too much for the 20Kw.
> >> The units are a year old, and I'm using the Honeywell digital
> >> thermostats How can I keep the two from ever running at the same
> >> time? Should I replace the thermostats with two that talk to each
> >> other, or can the Honeywells do that?
> >
> >On 17 Dec 2006 18:47:49 -0800, randall.reed@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>Alright, so I just had a 20KW generator installed to power the whole
> >>house. I have two units, 5 Ton and 3 Ton and I don't want them ever to
> >>run at the same time, because the two would be too much for the 20Kw.
> >>The units are a year old, and I'm using the Honeywell digital
> >>thermostats How can I keep the two from ever running at the same
> >>time? Should I replace the thermostats with two that talk to each
> >>other, or can the Honeywells do that?
> >
> >I assume you dont care if they both run when on normal power and its
> >that if you switch to emergency power when you dont want both units
> >running.
> >
> >If that is the case I would have a relay powered off the transfer
> >switch or generator which would de energize one or the other a/cs.
> >
> >The relay, when energized, would break the control wire through a set
> >of N.C. contacts to the condensing unit (your choice) compressor 24v
> >contactor coil.
> >
> >Consult the installer of the generator for a specific wiring location
> >to power up the relay when the generator starts. Done.
>
>
> not done.
>
> you're forcing the customer to choose 1 of 2 when he could have both.
>
> the two 24v relays are the best choice. the ho can purchase them off
> the web & install them himself. once in place, operation is automatic.
>
> customer has the option of using either ac, but never both at the same
> time.
>
> now put a sticky on each t-stat that says:
>
> for ac, turn off the other thermostat
>
> done.


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