Just when you think you've seen it all...

Posted by Bubba on January 24, 2009, 3:07 pm

>>>> Ran across a 20 ton Byrant LP RTU today that is data tagged at 3.2" wc
>>>> on the manifold and verified by the manufacture as such. That's a
>>>> first for me. Every other piece of LP equipment I've ever seen runs
>>>> 10" wc on the manifold.
>>>I always check the tags... as anything's possible. I've seen water heaters
>>>with low 9" and heating units up to 11".
>>>If I recall correctly, the Lennox Pulse was an unusual number.

>> "Unusual"?? hehe. That's quite an understatement. That furnace was
>> undoubtedly the strangest machine ever. And the "flapper". Now that
>> was a piece of artwork. And then the ol water pressure test to check
>> for heat exchanger leaks. Now that was some engineering work.
>> POS. Gotta love ol "Dave".
>> Bubba

>Was at a house today with a Pulse...
>Manifold pressure for Nat is 2" while LP was to be set at 9"
>Another POS design is the Syder General GUA... pressurized heat exchanger...

Tempstar happens to be getting on my nerves a bit too.
Installed a 2.5 ton 12 Seer heat pump back in 2005 for my cousin.
Working fine till last week. Found the outdoor expansion valve had
rubbed a hole in the cap bulb line so the bulb lost its charge. No
valve in stock at my Tempstar dealer (They have 8 diff wholesale
houses in 3 states. Had to get it from the factory. It comes so I go
do the job. About 5 hrs for a damn bulb change. A big part of that was
getting that damn frozen refrigerant out of the unit at 9 in the
morning on a 20 degree day. Had a cube heater, hand held propane torch
and covered the top of the unit to warm it up. Anyways, changed it
out, press tested, evacuated (changed the bi-flo drier in the outdoor
unit), weighed in the charge and turned it on. Compressor sounded a
bit funny and I watched the suction gauge pump all the way down to
zero!! Freaking garbage new exp valve from the factory! I was a little
leary because when I got the new valve out of the box it looked rather
tarnished and not shiney new copper and brass. Looked at the date
code. It TOO was a 2005 new expansion valve. Its one with the check
built into the valve, non bleed with the external eq line.
What a crock of chit! Ordered the new valve again. Wonder what I'll
get this time?
Bubba

It sure would be nice to build units with bypasses and shut off valves
around the exp valve so when they crap out on you, just valve it off,
unbolt or unsweat, pop in the new, a quick evac on the valve and a cpl
inches of tubing and away you go again. I know it would be more
expensive to build but hell, around here the require new boilers to be
installed with valves on almost every piece on the unit to avoid
draining the system.
Maybe Ohamma will require that. hahahaha

Posted by The King on January 24, 2009, 5:35 pm

wrote:

>>>>> Ran across a 20 ton Byrant LP RTU today that is data tagged at 3.2" wc
>>>>> on the manifold and verified by the manufacture as such. That's a
>>>>> first for me. Every other piece of LP equipment I've ever seen runs
>>>>> 10" wc on the manifold.
>>>>I always check the tags... as anything's possible. I've seen water heaters
>>>>with low 9" and heating units up to 11".
>>>>If I recall correctly, the Lennox Pulse was an unusual number.
>>> "Unusual"?? hehe. That's quite an understatement. That furnace was
>>> undoubtedly the strangest machine ever. And the "flapper". Now that
>>> was a piece of artwork. And then the ol water pressure test to check
>>> for heat exchanger leaks. Now that was some engineering work.
>>> POS. Gotta love ol "Dave".
>>> Bubba

>>Was at a house today with a Pulse...
>>Manifold pressure for Nat is 2" while LP was to be set at 9"
>>Another POS design is the Syder General GUA... pressurized heat exchanger...

>Tempstar happens to be getting on my nerves a bit too.
>Installed a 2.5 ton 12 Seer heat pump back in 2005 for my cousin.
>Working fine till last week. Found the outdoor expansion valve had
>rubbed a hole in the cap bulb line so the bulb lost its charge. No
>valve in stock at my Tempstar dealer (They have 8 diff wholesale
>houses in 3 states. Had to get it from the factory. It comes so I go
>do the job. About 5 hrs for a damn bulb change. A big part of that was
>getting that damn frozen refrigerant out of the unit at 9 in the
>morning on a 20 degree day. Had a cube heater, hand held propane torch
>and covered the top of the unit to warm it up. Anyways, changed it
>out, press tested, evacuated (changed the bi-flo drier in the outdoor
>unit), weighed in the charge and turned it on. Compressor sounded a
>bit funny and I watched the suction gauge pump all the way down to
>zero!! Freaking garbage new exp valve from the factory! I was a little
>leary because when I got the new valve out of the box it looked rather
>tarnished and not shiney new copper and brass. Looked at the date
>code. It TOO was a 2005 new expansion valve. Its one with the check
>built into the valve, non bleed with the external eq line.
>What a crock of chit! Ordered the new valve again. Wonder what I'll
>get this time?
>Bubba
>It sure would be nice to build units with bypasses and shut off valves
>around the exp valve so when they crap out on you, just valve it off,
>unbolt or unsweat, pop in the new, a quick evac on the valve and a cpl
>inches of tubing and away you go again. I know it would be more
>expensive to build but hell, around here the require new boilers to be
>installed with valves on almost every piece on the unit to avoid
>draining the system.
>Maybe Ohamma will require that. hahahaha

Valves only work if you exercise them once in a while which is
something that usually isn't done. I've seen a lot of new butterfly
and ball valves not hold worth a damn after a few years. I've also
seen quite a few gate valves fail because the stems to the gate break
when you try and valve them off.

I had to replace some HW valves in an old church last week that
wouldn't shut off completely and the only valves in the loop were at
the boiler. Took all day to replace four angle valves with a union
outlet because of it. Purging the air was a real bitch. I replaced
the coin vents on the baseboard with some #67 auto vents to help take
care of any remaining air which worked out fine. Systems with air
separators are a lot easier to deal with.

Posted by geothermaljones on January 21, 2009, 10:35 pm

3.2" seems low, but is not unusual.
Since lots of gas lines "out East" are ancient many run on very low
pressure.
Not long ago, (w/in 15 yrs) Boston & Chicago still had gas mains made of
wood,
14" WC gas pressure was all that could be delivered at the street.
Bring that into a building, & run it through a meter, & 7" was the max
they'd "guarantee delivered"
7" WC pressure out from the meter, & a reasonable pipe TEL (total equivalent
length), common practice meant most equipment was sized to operate on a
standard loss of 50% from the meter...
hence, 3.5"
With high pressure gas out West (80 psi at the street) it does seem "small"

goodluck
geothermaljones

> Ran across a 20 ton Byrant LP RTU today that is data tagged at 3.2" wc
> on the manifold and verified by the manufacture as such. That's a
> first for me. Every other piece of LP equipment I've ever seen runs
> 10" wc on the manifold.

Posted by The King on January 22, 2009, 6:20 am

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:35:38 -0600, "geothermaljones"

>3.2" seems low, but is not unusual.

This is propane, you know LP gas..

>Since lots of gas lines "out East" are ancient many run on very low
>pressure.
>Not long ago, (w/in 15 yrs) Boston & Chicago still had gas mains made of
>wood,
>14" WC gas pressure was all that could be delivered at the street.
>Bring that into a building, & run it through a meter, & 7" was the max
>they'd "guarantee delivered"
>7" WC pressure out from the meter, & a reasonable pipe TEL (total equivalent
>length), common practice meant most equipment was sized to operate on a
>standard loss of 50% from the meter...
>hence, 3.5"
>With high pressure gas out West (80 psi at the street) it does seem "small"
> goodluck
> geothermaljones

>> Ran across a 20 ton Byrant LP RTU today that is data tagged at 3.2" wc
>> on the manifold and verified by the manufacture as such. That's a
>> first for me. Every other piece of LP equipment I've ever seen runs
>> 10" wc on the manifold.

Posted by geothermaljones on January 22, 2009, 7:38 pm

I'm assuming Bryant built it for worst case & offered up a $10-20.00 kit for
LP-NG swap.
Sure would lower production costs.

Maybe they built it to operate in sub zero temp zones...
Propane pressure drops as the temps drop below zero, & has none at all if
it's below it's -44dF boiling point.
Not common, but well above my states low temp record... (-60dF in Tower, MN
1996)
Add to that the pressures of tanks near empty, tank heaters are common, &
many are underground.

But, I could be wrong...

geothermaljones

> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:35:38 -0600, "geothermaljones"

>>3.2" seems low, but is not unusual.

> This is propane, you know LP gas..

>>Since lots of gas lines "out East" are ancient many run on very low
>>pressure.
>>Not long ago, (w/in 15 yrs) Boston & Chicago still had gas mains made of
>>wood,
>>14" WC gas pressure was all that could be delivered at the street.
>>Bring that into a building, & run it through a meter, & 7" was the max
>>they'd "guarantee delivered"
>>7" WC pressure out from the meter, & a reasonable pipe TEL (total
>>equivalent
>>length), common practice meant most equipment was sized to operate on a
>>standard loss of 50% from the meter...
>>hence, 3.5"
>>With high pressure gas out West (80 psi at the street) it does seem
>>"small"
>> goodluck
>> geothermaljones

>>> Ran across a 20 ton Byrant LP RTU today that is data tagged at 3.2" wc
>>> on the manifold and verified by the manufacture as such. That's a
>>> first for me. Every other piece of LP equipment I've ever seen runs
>>> 10" wc on the manifold.

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