Lennox Furnace drain issue

Posted by Steve on December 27, 2008, 9:39 pm

> wrote:

>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I purchased a new high effiency Lennox G61V furnace a year ago,
>>>>> and have had problems ever since. After numerous visits from the
>>>>> installer, we've finally determined that water from the cold header
>>>>> box (which sit directly behind the combustion inducer fan), does not
>>>>> drain out until the furnace shuts down. So, basically if it is cold
>>>>> outside and the furnace runs for several hours straight, that water
>>>>> continues to build up and gets into the inducer fan, which cause all
>>>>> kinds of problems, and the furnace shuts down.
>>>>> The service people I've used have called lennox, but can not figure
>>>>> out why the water would not drain out until the furnace winds down or
>>>>> is shut off.
>>>>> Has anyone run into this issue before? I'm a good $1000 in on
>>>>> maintenance fees right now and I'm not sure what to do at this point.
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Joe
>>>>Was it the lowest price?? Seems that one of the first things they cut
>>>>corners on is not putting a proper trap in the drain line. There is a
>>>>reason
>>>>for the trap being there....looks like you found out about it the hard
>>>>way.
>>> The trap is incorporated into the furnace at the factory. He is not
>>> talking about the trap on the a coil. Which BTW isn't needed on a up
>>> flow furnace you dolt.

>>Having never worked on that particular model, I'll take you word for it...
>>Either way, from the symptoms, there are issues with the trap either being
>>partially blocked or not being deep enough.

> I agree that it sounds like a trap problem or possibly a venting issue
> with the pitch of the pipe. Its not a field fabricated trap. Like
> all 90 plus furnaces, the trap comes with the furnace.

>>Now....as far as a trap on an upflow coil, Rheem/RUUD *REQUIRES* that
>>there
>>be a trap that a minimum of 6 inches below the coil pan, and the trap must
>>be a minimum of 3 inches deep. There is a reason the factory puts notes in
>>the installation instructions and puts a sticker on the coil and/or coil
>>casing that gives the dimentions of the required trap. I have seen the
>>same
>>trap requirements for Carrier and Trane. Not only do they give the
>>dimentions, but they also include pictures...*just* for you.

> I don't know why they would make it a requirement since it has nothing
> to do with condensate drainage on an up flow.
> Blow thru coils don't need a trap to drain properly. Pull thru coils
> do.

I didn't write the installation instructions.... but I do actually *READ*
them, and follow them. So far, I have never seen installation instructions
that said that traps were only for "pull through coils". Maybe you could
show me where installation instructions say that traps are only required for
"blow through" evap coils?? or maybe give me a code site??

Posted by The King on December 27, 2008, 10:05 pm

wrote:

>> wrote:

>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I purchased a new high effiency Lennox G61V furnace a year ago,
>>>>>> and have had problems ever since. After numerous visits from the
>>>>>> installer, we've finally determined that water from the cold header
>>>>>> box (which sit directly behind the combustion inducer fan), does not
>>>>>> drain out until the furnace shuts down. So, basically if it is cold
>>>>>> outside and the furnace runs for several hours straight, that water
>>>>>> continues to build up and gets into the inducer fan, which cause all
>>>>>> kinds of problems, and the furnace shuts down.
>>>>>> The service people I've used have called lennox, but can not figure
>>>>>> out why the water would not drain out until the furnace winds down or
>>>>>> is shut off.
>>>>>> Has anyone run into this issue before? I'm a good $1000 in on
>>>>>> maintenance fees right now and I'm not sure what to do at this point.
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>Was it the lowest price?? Seems that one of the first things they cut
>>>>>corners on is not putting a proper trap in the drain line. There is a
>>>>>reason
>>>>>for the trap being there....looks like you found out about it the hard
>>>>>way.
>>>> The trap is incorporated into the furnace at the factory. He is not
>>>> talking about the trap on the a coil. Which BTW isn't needed on a up
>>>> flow furnace you dolt.
>>>Having never worked on that particular model, I'll take you word for it...
>>>Either way, from the symptoms, there are issues with the trap either being
>>>partially blocked or not being deep enough.

>> I agree that it sounds like a trap problem or possibly a venting issue
>> with the pitch of the pipe. Its not a field fabricated trap. Like
>> all 90 plus furnaces, the trap comes with the furnace.

>>>Now....as far as a trap on an upflow coil, Rheem/RUUD *REQUIRES* that
>>>there
>>>be a trap that a minimum of 6 inches below the coil pan, and the trap must
>>>be a minimum of 3 inches deep. There is a reason the factory puts notes in
>>>the installation instructions and puts a sticker on the coil and/or coil
>>>casing that gives the dimentions of the required trap. I have seen the
>>>same
>>>trap requirements for Carrier and Trane. Not only do they give the
>>>dimentions, but they also include pictures...*just* for you.

>> I don't know why they would make it a requirement since it has nothing
>> to do with condensate drainage on an up flow.
>> Blow thru coils don't need a trap to drain properly. Pull thru coils
>> do.

>I didn't write the installation instructions.... but I do actually *READ*
>them, and follow them. So far, I have never seen installation instructions
>that said that traps were only for "pull through coils".
> Maybe you could
>show me where installation instructions say that traps are only required for
>"blow through" evap coils?? or maybe give me a code site??

It doesn't have anything to do with codes or installation
instructions. It has to do with the static pressure across the coil
and drain pan. As you full well know, or should know, when a blower
is downstream (pull thru) of the evap coil it wont drain until the
blower shuts off. When the blower is upstream of the coil it will
drain just fine regardless of if its trapped or not.

So why do they want a trap on an up flow? I suspect its just over
kill.

Posted by on December 27, 2008, 10:13 pm

> wrote:

> >> wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:22:45 -0600, "Noon-Air" <Noon-...@comcast.net=
> >>>> wrote:

om...

> >>>>>> Hi, I purchased a new high effiency Lennox G61V furnace a year ago=

> >>>>>> and have had problems ever since. =A0After numerous visits from th=

> >>>>>> installer, we've finally determined that water from the cold heade=

> >>>>>> box (which sit directly behind the combustion inducer fan), does n=

> >>>>>> drain out until the furnace shuts down. =A0So, basically if it is =

cold

> >>>>>> outside and the furnace runs for several hours straight, that wate=

> >>>>>> continues to build up and gets into the inducer fan, which cause a=

> >>>>>> kinds of problems, and the furnace shuts down.
> >>>>>> The service people I've used have called lennox, but can not figur=

> >>>>>> out why the water would not drain out until the furnace winds down=

> >>>>>> is shut off.
> >>>>>> Has anyone run into this issue before? =A0I'm a good $1000 in on
> >>>>>> maintenance fees right now and I'm not sure what to do at this poi=

nt.

> >>>>>> thanks,
> >>>>>> Joe
> >>>>>Was it the lowest price?? Seems that one of the first things they cu=

> >>>>>corners on is not putting a proper trap in the drain line. There is =

> >>>>>reason
> >>>>>for the trap being there....looks like you found out about it the ha=

> >>>>>way.
> >>>> The trap is incorporated into the furnace at the factory. =A0He is n=

> >>>> talking about the trap on the a coil. =A0Which BTW isn't needed on a=

> >>>> flow furnace you dolt.
> >>>Having never worked on that particular model, I'll take you word for i=

t...

> >>>Either way, from the symptoms, there are issues with the trap either b=

eing

> >>>partially blocked or not being deep enough.
> >> I agree that it sounds like a trap problem or possibly a venting issue
> >> with the pitch of the pipe. =A0Its not a field fabricated trap. =A0Lik=

> >> all 90 plus furnaces, the trap comes with the furnace.
> >>>Now....as far as a trap on an upflow coil, Rheem/RUUD *REQUIRES* that
> >>>there
> >>>be a trap that a minimum of 6 inches below the coil pan, and the trap =

must

> >>>be a minimum of 3 inches deep. There is a reason the factory puts note=

s in

> >>>the installation instructions and puts a sticker on the coil and/or co=

> >>>casing that gives the dimentions of the required trap. I have seen the
> >>>same
> >>>trap requirements for Carrier and Trane. Not only do they give the
> >>>dimentions, but they also include pictures...*just* for you.
> >> I don't know why they would make it a requirement since it has nothing
> >> to do with condensate drainage on an up flow.
> >> Blow thru coils don't need a trap to drain properly. =A0Pull thru coil=

> >> do.

> >I didn't write the installation instructions.... but I do actually *READ=

> >them, and follow them. =A0So far, I have never seen installation instruc=

tions

> >that said that traps were only for "pull through coils".
> > Maybe you could
> >show me where installation instructions say that traps are only required=

for

> >"blow through" evap coils?? or maybe give me a code site??

> It doesn't have anything to do with codes or installation
> instructions. =A0It =A0has to do with the static pressure across the coil
> and drain pan. =A0As you full well know, or should know, when a blower
> is downstream (pull thru) of the evap coil it wont drain until the
> blower shuts off. =A0When the blower is upstream of the coil it will
> drain just fine regardless of if its trapped or not. =A0
> So why do they want a trap on an up flow? =A0I suspect its just over
> kill.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -

Alright, since this is a Usenet group, I can't email or load photos
(thanks google). King, can I just emial you a picture of the front of
the furance so you can see if anything look incorrect? Also can you
explain your comment above further (I am rookie on this stuff right
now). I have an upflow furnace, the exhaust pipe is above the
blower. So I agree with you, why do I even need a trap, I don't see
how any fumes would go anywhere but up. thx.

Posted by The King on December 27, 2008, 10:24 pm

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:13:20 -0800 (PST), jkennedy1@gmail.com wrote:

>> wrote:

>> >> wrote:
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Hi, I purchased a new high effiency Lennox G61V furnace a year ago,
>> >>>>>> and have had problems ever since. After numerous visits from the
>> >>>>>> installer, we've finally determined that water from the cold header
>> >>>>>> box (which sit directly behind the combustion inducer fan), does not
>> >>>>>> drain out until the furnace shuts down. So, basically if it is cold
>> >>>>>> outside and the furnace runs for several hours straight, that water
>> >>>>>> continues to build up and gets into the inducer fan, which cause all
>> >>>>>> kinds of problems, and the furnace shuts down.
>> >>>>>> The service people I've used have called lennox, but can not figure
>> >>>>>> out why the water would not drain out until the furnace winds down or
>> >>>>>> is shut off.
>> >>>>>> Has anyone run into this issue before? I'm a good $1000 in on
>> >>>>>> maintenance fees right now and I'm not sure what to do at this point.
>> >>>>>> thanks,
>> >>>>>> Joe
>> >>>>>Was it the lowest price?? Seems that one of the first things they cut
>> >>>>>corners on is not putting a proper trap in the drain line. There is a
>> >>>>>reason
>> >>>>>for the trap being there....looks like you found out about it the hard
>> >>>>>way.
>> >>>> The trap is incorporated into the furnace at the factory. He is not
>> >>>> talking about the trap on the a coil. Which BTW isn't needed on a up
>> >>>> flow furnace you dolt.
>> >>>Having never worked on that particular model, I'll take you word for it...
>> >>>Either way, from the symptoms, there are issues with the trap either being
>> >>>partially blocked or not being deep enough.
>> >> I agree that it sounds like a trap problem or possibly a venting issue
>> >> with the pitch of the pipe. Its not a field fabricated trap. Like
>> >> all 90 plus furnaces, the trap comes with the furnace.
>> >>>Now....as far as a trap on an upflow coil, Rheem/RUUD *REQUIRES* that
>> >>>there
>> >>>be a trap that a minimum of 6 inches below the coil pan, and the trap must
>> >>>be a minimum of 3 inches deep. There is a reason the factory puts notes in
>> >>>the installation instructions and puts a sticker on the coil and/or coil
>> >>>casing that gives the dimentions of the required trap. I have seen the
>> >>>same
>> >>>trap requirements for Carrier and Trane. Not only do they give the
>> >>>dimentions, but they also include pictures...*just* for you.
>> >> I don't know why they would make it a requirement since it has nothing
>> >> to do with condensate drainage on an up flow.
>> >> Blow thru coils don't need a trap to drain properly. Pull thru coils
>> >> do.
>> >I didn't write the installation instructions.... but I do actually *READ*
>> >them, and follow them. So far, I have never seen installation instructions
>> >that said that traps were only for "pull through coils".
>> > Maybe you could
>> >show me where installation instructions say that traps are only required for
>> >"blow through" evap coils?? or maybe give me a code site??

>> It doesn't have anything to do with codes or installation
>> instructions. It has to do with the static pressure across the coil
>> and drain pan. As you full well know, or should know, when a blower
>> is downstream (pull thru) of the evap coil it wont drain until the
>> blower shuts off. When the blower is upstream of the coil it will
>> drain just fine regardless of if its trapped or not.
>> So why do they want a trap on an up flow? I suspect its just over
>> kill.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -

>Alright, since this is a Usenet group, I can't email or load photos
>(thanks google). King, can I just emial you a picture of the front of
>the furance so you can see if anything look incorrect? Also can you
>explain your comment above further (I am rookie on this stuff right
>now). I have an upflow furnace, the exhaust pipe is above the
>blower. So I agree with you, why do I even need a trap, I don't see
>how any fumes would go anywhere but up. thx.

Were talking two different traps. One for the A/C condensate and the
one for the furnace condensate. You need the trap for the furnace
condensate. Make sure the trap is clean, make sure the exhaust is
pitched back towards the furnace 1/4 inch per liner foot with no sags,
make sure there are no kinks in any drain lines, make sure there are
no blockages in any drain lines inside and outside of the furnace.

Posted by on December 28, 2008, 10:05 am

> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:13:20 -0800 (PST), jkenne...@gmail.com wrote:

> >> wrote:
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:22:45 -0600, "Noon-Air" <Noon-...@comcast.=

net>

> >> >>>> wrote:

s.com...

> >> >>>>>> Hi, I purchased a new high effiency Lennox G61V furnace a year =

ago,

> >> >>>>>> and have had problems ever since. =A0After numerous visits from=

the

> >> >>>>>> installer, we've finally determined that water from the cold he=

ader

> >> >>>>>> box (which sit directly behind the combustion inducer fan), doe=

s not

> >> >>>>>> drain out until the furnace shuts down. =A0So, basically if it =

is cold

> >> >>>>>> outside and the furnace runs for several hours straight, that w=

ater

> >> >>>>>> continues to build up and gets into the inducer fan, which caus=

e all

> >> >>>>>> kinds of problems, and the furnace shuts down.
> >> >>>>>> The service people I've used have called lennox, but can not fi=

gure

> >> >>>>>> out why the water would not drain out until the furnace winds d=

own or

> >> >>>>>> is shut off.
> >> >>>>>> Has anyone run into this issue before? =A0I'm a good $1000 in o=

> >> >>>>>> maintenance fees right now and I'm not sure what to do at this =

point.

> >> >>>>>> thanks,
> >> >>>>>> Joe
> >> >>>>>Was it the lowest price?? Seems that one of the first things they=

cut

> >> >>>>>corners on is not putting a proper trap in the drain line. There =

is a

> >> >>>>>reason
> >> >>>>>for the trap being there....looks like you found out about it the=

hard

> >> >>>>>way.
> >> >>>> The trap is incorporated into the furnace at the factory. =A0He i=

s not

> >> >>>> talking about the trap on the a coil. =A0Which BTW isn't needed o=

n a up

> >> >>>> flow furnace you dolt.
> >> >>>Having never worked on that particular model, I'll take you word fo=

r it...

> >> >>>Either way, from the symptoms, there are issues with the trap eithe=

r being

> >> >>>partially blocked or not being deep enough.
> >> >> I agree that it sounds like a trap problem or possibly a venting is=

sue

> >> >> with the pitch of the pipe. =A0Its not a field fabricated trap. =A0=

> >> >> all 90 plus furnaces, the trap comes with the furnace.
> >> >>>Now....as far as a trap on an upflow coil, Rheem/RUUD *REQUIRES* th=

> >> >>>there
> >> >>>be a trap that a minimum of 6 inches below the coil pan, and the tr=

ap must

> >> >>>be a minimum of 3 inches deep. There is a reason the factory puts n=

otes in

> >> >>>the installation instructions and puts a sticker on the coil and/or=

coil

> >> >>>casing that gives the dimentions of the required trap. I have seen =

the

> >> >>>same
> >> >>>trap requirements for Carrier and Trane. Not only do they give the
> >> >>>dimentions, but they also include pictures...*just* for you.
> >> >> I don't know why they would make it a requirement since it has noth=

ing

> >> >> to do with condensate drainage on an up flow.
> >> >> Blow thru coils don't need a trap to drain properly. =A0Pull thru c=

oils

> >> >> do.
> >> >I didn't write the installation instructions.... but I do actually *R=

EAD*

> >> >them, and follow them. =A0So far, I have never seen installation inst=

ructions

> >> >that said that traps were only for "pull through coils".
> >> > Maybe you could
> >> >show me where installation instructions say that traps are only requi=

red for

> >> >"blow through" evap coils?? or maybe give me a code site??
> >> It doesn't have anything to do with codes or installation
> >> instructions. =A0It =A0has to do with the static pressure across the c=

oil

> >> and drain pan. =A0As you full well know, or should know, when a blower
> >> is downstream (pull thru) of the evap coil it wont drain until the
> >> blower shuts off. =A0When the blower is upstream of the coil it will
> >> drain just fine regardless of if its trapped or not. =A0
> >> So why do they want a trap on an up flow? =A0I suspect its just over
> >> kill.- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -

> >Alright, since this is a Usenet group, I can't email or load photos
> >(thanks google). =A0King, can I just emial you a picture of the front of
> >the furance so you can see if anything look incorrect? =A0Also can you
> >explain your comment above further (I am rookie on this stuff right
> >now). =A0I have an upflow furnace, the exhaust pipe is above the
> >blower. =A0So I agree with you, why do I even need a trap, I don't see
> >how any fumes would go anywhere but up. thx.

> Were talking two different traps. =A0One for the A/C condensate and the
> one for the furnace condensate. =A0You need the trap for the furnace
> condensate. =A0Make sure the trap is clean, make sure the exhaust is
> pitched back towards the furnace 1/4 inch per liner foot with no sags,
> make sure there are no kinks in any drain lines, make sure there are
> no blockages in any drain lines inside and outside of the furnace.- Hide =

quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

I see. this situation does not seem to be a problem with the exhaust
condensation/ drainage, and I have check the 1/4 inch decline on the
pipe. The cold header box behind the inducer fan does not drain
(although I can hear water in there) until the furnace shuts down.

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Lennox Furnace drain issue - Page 2