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Looking for a good A/C installer (Manual J) - Denver Metro bubbabubbs 06-11-2007
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Posted by on June 13, 2007, 5:03 pm

> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:01:56 -0500, someone wrote:
>
> >
> >v would probably suggest a 3-ton unit in that example. <rolleyes>
> >
> The contractor can't "cut corners on the formula" because he likely
> doesn't have and doesn't know the formula anyway. He just punches the
> numbers in to something that he bought and then tries to impress you
> with the resultant printout.
>
> I used to do these "by hand" (okay, pocket calculator) back in the
> day. Don't confuse precision with accuracy. Garbage in garbage out.
> You are better off with someone who can make a reasoned estimate here
> and there, than with someone who laboriously inputs precise fractions
> but uses the wrong conditions and assumptions because he is just doing
> data entry and not understanding principles.


Yeah, well, we don't send out a rookie with a computer to perform a load
calc.

If you'd send someone out that has HVAC knowledge, you would understand that
a load calc *is* worthwhile.

Might as well install that 5-ton unit, Eh?



Posted by on June 17, 2007, 6:00 pm

>
>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:01:56 -0500, someone wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >v would probably suggest a 3-ton unit in that example. <rolleyes>
>> >
>> The contractor can't "cut corners on the formula" because he likely
>> doesn't have and doesn't know the formula anyway. He just punches the
>> numbers in to something that he bought and then tries to impress you
>> with the resultant printout.
>>
>> I used to do these "by hand" (okay, pocket calculator) back in the
>> day. Don't confuse precision with accuracy. Garbage in garbage out.
>> You are better off with someone who can make a reasoned estimate here
>> and there, than with someone who laboriously inputs precise fractions
>> but uses the wrong conditions and assumptions because he is just doing
>> data entry and not understanding principles.
>
>
>Yeah, well, we don't send out a rookie with a computer to perform a load
>calc.
>
>If you'd send someone out that has HVAC knowledge, you would understand that
>a load calc *is* worthwhile.
>
>Might as well install that 5-ton unit, Eh?
>

Where I come from, rule of thumb for average constructed homes is 1
ton/500 sq ft (8ft ceiling). Of course it's not calculated but I bet
it's close to accurate for the average home where I am.

Posted by Noon-Air on June 17, 2007, 7:16 pm

>
>>
>>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:01:56 -0500, someone wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >v would probably suggest a 3-ton unit in that example. <rolleyes>
>>> >
>>> The contractor can't "cut corners on the formula" because he likely
>>> doesn't have and doesn't know the formula anyway. He just punches the
>>> numbers in to something that he bought and then tries to impress you
>>> with the resultant printout.
>>>
>>> I used to do these "by hand" (okay, pocket calculator) back in the
>>> day. Don't confuse precision with accuracy. Garbage in garbage out.
>>> You are better off with someone who can make a reasoned estimate here
>>> and there, than with someone who laboriously inputs precise fractions
>>> but uses the wrong conditions and assumptions because he is just doing
>>> data entry and not understanding principles.
>>
>>
>>Yeah, well, we don't send out a rookie with a computer to perform a load
>>calc.
>>
>>If you'd send someone out that has HVAC knowledge, you would understand
>>that
>>a load calc *is* worthwhile.
>>
>>Might as well install that 5-ton unit, Eh?
>>
>
> Where I come from, rule of thumb for average constructed homes is 1
> ton/500 sq ft (8ft ceiling). Of course it's not calculated but I bet
> it's close to accurate for the average home where I am.

Gee..... where I am at, there is no rule of thumb.... I have homes with
*correctly sized*(calculated) systems that range anywhere from 500sqft per
ton up to 1500sqft per ton, with an average being 700sqft/ton with design
temps of 98DB/77WB for cooling and 28DB for heating.



Posted by Bubba on June 17, 2007, 10:55 pm
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:00:10 -0500, RT wrote:

>
>>
>>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:01:56 -0500, someone wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >v would probably suggest a 3-ton unit in that example. <rolleyes>
>>> >
>>> The contractor can't "cut corners on the formula" because he likely
>>> doesn't have and doesn't know the formula anyway. He just punches the
>>> numbers in to something that he bought and then tries to impress you
>>> with the resultant printout.
>>>
>>> I used to do these "by hand" (okay, pocket calculator) back in the
>>> day. Don't confuse precision with accuracy. Garbage in garbage out.
>>> You are better off with someone who can make a reasoned estimate here
>>> and there, than with someone who laboriously inputs precise fractions
>>> but uses the wrong conditions and assumptions because he is just doing
>>> data entry and not understanding principles.
>>
>>
>>Yeah, well, we don't send out a rookie with a computer to perform a load
>>calc.
>>
>>If you'd send someone out that has HVAC knowledge, you would understand that
>>a load calc *is* worthwhile.
>>
>>Might as well install that 5-ton unit, Eh?
>>
>
>Where I come from, rule of thumb for average constructed homes is 1
>ton/500 sq ft (8ft ceiling). Of course it's not calculated but I bet
>it's close to accurate for the average home where I am.

Well its good you have two thumbs. You can stick one up your butt
while your sucking on the other with that mental brainwork for
calculations.
Bubba

Posted by on June 18, 2007, 12:45 am

>
> >
> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:01:56 -0500, someone wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >v would probably suggest a 3-ton unit in that example. <rolleyes>
> >> >
> >> The contractor can't "cut corners on the formula" because he likely
> >> doesn't have and doesn't know the formula anyway. He just punches the
> >> numbers in to something that he bought and then tries to impress you
> >> with the resultant printout.
> >>
> >> I used to do these "by hand" (okay, pocket calculator) back in the
> >> day. Don't confuse precision with accuracy. Garbage in garbage out.
> >> You are better off with someone who can make a reasoned estimate here
> >> and there, than with someone who laboriously inputs precise fractions
> >> but uses the wrong conditions and assumptions because he is just doing
> >> data entry and not understanding principles.
> >
> >
> >Yeah, well, we don't send out a rookie with a computer to perform a load
> >calc.
> >
> >If you'd send someone out that has HVAC knowledge, you would understand
that
> >a load calc *is* worthwhile.
> >
> >Might as well install that 5-ton unit, Eh?
> >
>
> Where I come from, rule of thumb for average constructed homes is 1
> ton/500 sq ft (8ft ceiling). Of course it's not calculated but I bet
> it's close to accurate for the average home where I am.


Where I come from, I do things correctly. That means the client gets a
Manual J to correctly size his or her new system. However, there are hacks
everywhere that use "rules of thumb" for just about everything. Their
clients are unhappy when they receive a quote to fix all the screw-ups.

Do it right, or do it twice. I garranty doing it right the first time is
cheaper in the long run!



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