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Most efficient water heater? Don Wiss 03-16-2008
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Posted by Don Wiss on March 16, 2008, 8:27 pm
I'd like to switch to a direct vent water heater. Looking at the A.O. Smith
site I get confused with all the models. Efficiency information is hidden.
There is no convenient chart to distinguish the models. It would seem that
these are my choice:

ProMax Closed Combustion Power Direct-Vent
ProMax Power Vent (C3 FVIR)
Power House Sealed Shot Power Direct-Vent
Power House Power Shot Power-Vent

But I can't figure out what is different. Plus each of the above has
variants.

So, what is the most efficient 50 gallon tank water heater with the longest
tank warranty? The run would be about 40 feet and will have a bunch of 90
degree bends.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Posted by Bubba on March 16, 2008, 9:24 pm
wrote:

>I'd like to switch to a direct vent water heater. Looking at the A.O. Smith
>site I get confused with all the models. Efficiency information is hidden.
>There is no convenient chart to distinguish the models. It would seem that
>these are my choice:
>
>ProMax Closed Combustion Power Direct-Vent
>ProMax Power Vent (C3 FVIR)
>Power House Sealed Shot Power Direct-Vent
>Power House Power Shot Power-Vent
>
>But I can't figure out what is different. Plus each of the above has
>variants.
>
>So, what is the most efficient 50 gallon tank water heater with the longest
>tank warranty? The run would be about 40 feet and will have a bunch of 90
>degree bends.
>
>Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

You forgot the Vertex Power Vent water heater at 90% efficiency
The Promax Closed Combustion Power Direct vent means you have 2 pvc
pipes. One brings air in for combustion. The other pipe vents the flue
gasses out.
The Promax Power vent C3 FVIR is just a single pipe water heater with
the technology to stop gasoline tank vapors from exploding due to
those retarded people that like to store paint and gas cans next to
their water heater. Goverment required.
The Power House sealed vents further and has two pipes.
The Power House Power Shot is a single pipe that vents further.
All those have 6 year tanks and parts
The vertex is going to be the most efficient and the most expensive to
purchase.
Bubba

Posted by ransley on March 16, 2008, 9:36 pm
> I'd like to switch to a direct vent water heater. Looking at the A.O. Smit=
h
> site I get confused with all the models. Efficiency information is hidden.=

> There is no convenient chart to distinguish the models. It would seem that=

> these are my choice:
>
> ProMax Closed Combustion Power Direct-Vent
> ProMax Power Vent (C3 FVIR)
> Power House Sealed Shot Power Direct-Vent
> Power House Power Shot Power-Vent
>
> But I can't figure out what is different. Plus each of the above has
> variants.
>
> So, what is the most efficient 50 gallon tank water heater with the longes=
t
> tank warranty? The run would be about 40 feet and will have a bunch of 90
> degree bends.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Most efficent is tankless since efficency is misleading, the Energy
Factor is what has the most meaning in water heaters , gas tanks of
regular vent and 80+% efficency are around 50-60 energy factor, i dont
know about direct vent though, tankless start around 80 energy factor.

Posted by hallerb@aol.com on March 16, 2008, 10:35 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'd like to switch to a direct vent water heater. Looking at the A.O. Sm=
ith
> > site I get confused with all the models. Efficiency information is hidde=
n.
> > There is no convenient chart to distinguish the models. It would seem th=
at
> > these are my choice:
>
> > ProMax Closed Combustion Power Direct-Vent
> > ProMax Power Vent (C3 FVIR)
> > Power House Sealed Shot Power Direct-Vent
> > Power House Power Shot Power-Vent
>
> > But I can't figure out what is different. Plus each of the above has
> > variants.
>
> > So, what is the most efficient 50 gallon tank water heater with the long=
est
> > tank warranty? The run would be about 40 feet and will have a bunch of 9=
0
> > degree bends.
>
> > Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> Most efficent is tankless since efficency is misleading, the Energy
> Factor is what has the most meaning in water heaters , gas tanks of
> regular vent and 80+% efficency are around 50-60 energy factor, i dont
> know about direct vent though, tankless start around 80 energy factor.- Hi=
de quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

tankless have lots of downsides, from delay when you fiorst draw water
till heated water arrives, to poor operation at low flow levels.

standard tanks actually have very low standby losses, just got touch
your tank hot hot is it?

current hoigh efficency condensing tanks are over 90% efficent. that
should be enough for anyone

Posted by Wayne Whitney on March 17, 2008, 12:41 pm

> standard tanks actually have very low standby losses, just got touch
> your tank hot hot is it?

That's not really true, a standard 80% combustion efficient tank
heater has an energy factor of around 0.60, so of the theoretical
heating value of the fuel burned, 20% goes up the flue, and the other
20% is roughly standby losses from the tank. Even an electric tank
water heater, which has a 100% "combustion" efficiency has an energy
factor of 0.91-0.93, so 7%-9% of the energy is lost as standby.

Also, a conventional tank water heater has most of its standby losses
up the flue, which travels through the middle of the tank. This is
why the standby losses are much higher than an electric tank. You
wouldn't notice this by touching the outside of the tank.

> current high efficency condensing tanks are over 90% efficent. that
> should be enough for anyone

Combustion efficiency is not the same as energy factor. AO Smith
doesn't have an energy factor rating for the Vertex, they say that
anything about 65,000 BTUs/hr input doesn't need to get rated. One
can guess that the standby losses are less than a conventional water
heater (due to the helical flue in the Vertex), but still more than an
electric. So the energy factor is maybe 0.75-0.80.

For a tankess gas water heater, the standby losses are zero, so the
energy factor is equal to the combustion efficiency. So an 80%
combustion efficient tankless has an energy factor of 0.80.

Yours, Wayne

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