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Posted by ransley on March 17, 2008, 4:57 pm
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > I'd like to switch to a direct vent water heater. Looking at the A.O. =
Smith
> > > site I get confused with all the models. Efficiency information is hid=
den.
> > > There is no convenient chart to distinguish the models. It would seem =
that
> > > these are my choice:
>
> > > ProMax Closed Combustion Power Direct-Vent
> > > ProMax Power Vent (C3 FVIR)
> > > Power House Sealed Shot Power Direct-Vent
> > > Power House Power Shot Power-Vent
>
> > > But I can't figure out what is different. Plus each of the above has
> > > variants.
>
> > > So, what is the most efficient 50 gallon tank water heater with the lo=
ngest
> > > tank warranty? The run would be about 40 feet and will have a bunch of=
90
> > > degree bends.
>
> > > Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
>
> > Most efficent is tankless since efficency is misleading, the Energy
> > Factor is what has the most meaning in water heaters , gas tanks of
> > regular vent and 80+% efficency are around 50-60 energy factor, i dont
> > know about direct vent though, tankless start around 80 energy factor.- =
Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> tankless have lots of downsides, from delay when you fiorst draw water
> till heated water arrives, to poor operation at low flow levels.
>
> standard tanks actually have very low standby losses, just got touch
> your tank hot hot is it?
>
> current hoigh efficency condensing tanks are over 90% efficent. that
> should be enough for anyone- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hallerb , have you used a tankless, no I will bet not, you put them
down because you cant afford one and have never used one. The delay
in hot water arriving might be 5 seconds longer than a tank since it
fires in seconds. 90 % efficent , yea the burner is, so how can you
explain 50-60% Energy Factor on tanks and 83-90 on Tankless. As I said
thats more of a true efficency rating, so what if the tank isnt hot,
what do you think goes up the middle of the tank and out the chimney,
heat!
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Posted by S. Barker on March 17, 2008, 5:13 pm
I'll put them down. AND I CAN afford them. All i have to do is ask you
what is the maximum temperature of your hot water in the winter, when the
incoming water is about 39 degrees? There, the argument is over. There's
NO WAY you can get 140 degree water from 39 degree input with a tankless.
And you can't wash dishes properly with 98 degree water. Hell, I'll bet
with 39 degree input, you can't even take a decent hot shower with all hot
and no cold on.
steve
Hallerb , have you used a tankless, no I will bet not, you put them
down because you cant afford one and have never used one. The delay
in hot water arriving might be 5 seconds longer than a tank since it
fires in seconds. 90 % efficent , yea the burner is, so how can you
explain 50-60% Energy Factor on tanks and 83-90 on Tankless. As I said
thats more of a true efficency rating, so what if the tank isnt hot,
what do you think goes up the middle of the tank and out the chimney,
heat!
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Posted by ransley on March 18, 2008, 9:53 am
> I'll put them down. =A0AND I CAN afford them. =A0All i have to do is ask y=
ou
> what is the maximum temperature of your hot water in the winter, when the
> incoming water is about 39 degrees? =A0There, the argument is over. =A0The=
re's
> NO WAY you can get 140 degree water from 39 degree input with a tankless.
> And you can't wash dishes properly with 98 degree water. =A0Hell, I'll bet=
> with 39 degree input, you can't even take a decent hot shower with all hot=
> and no cold on.
>
> steve
>
>
>
> Hallerb , have you used a tankless, no I will bet not, you put them
> down because you cant afford one and have never used one. =A0The delay
> in hot water arriving might be 5 seconds longer than a tank since it
> fires in seconds. 90 % efficent , yea the burner is, so how can you
> explain 50-60% Energy Factor on tanks and 83-90 on Tankless. As I said
> thats more of a true efficency rating, so what if the tank isnt hot,
> what do you think goes up the middle of the tank and out the chimney,
> heat!
Here we go again, sombody who does not have a clue to the facts, has
not used one, but can give false information putting them down. I have
a water main incomming on a hill which is too close to the surface
since dirt is going away, when its -10f out my incomming has gotten to
34f. I dont even have my small 117000 btu Bosch on high and the shower
is great. Look at specs, 90f rise is what you can get, 130f water is
to hot and a waste of money. 98f with 39f incomming is only 59f rise,
far short of 90f rise which my unit does, and I have measured it.
Consider something else, Tanks loose 1-3% efficency every year due to
scale buildup at the bottom of the tank, I recently removed a maybe 25
yr old tank with 13" of rock scale in it, I bet it was only 50%
efficent, Tankless dont hold scale, Tankless you just pur in Lime Away
through a valve you add, a simple 30 minute procedure to keep it 100%
efficent 25 years down the road, you cant clean out most tank units.
Tanks loose efficency every year and you cant stop it by flushing it.
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Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski on March 19, 2008, 2:28 am
> I'll put them down. AND I CAN afford them. All i have to do is ask you
> what is the maximum temperature of your hot water in the winter, when the
> incoming water is about 39 degrees? There, the argument is over. There's
> NO WAY you can get 140 degree water from 39 degree input with a tankless.
> And you can't wash dishes properly with 98 degree water. Hell, I'll bet
> with 39 degree input, you can't even take a decent hot shower with all hot
> and no cold on.
>
> steve
>
>
>
> Hallerb , have you used a tankless, no I will bet not, you put them
> down because you cant afford one and have never used one. The delay
> in hot water arriving might be 5 seconds longer than a tank since it
> fires in seconds. 90 % efficent , yea the burner is, so how can you
> explain 50-60% Energy Factor on tanks and 83-90 on Tankless. As I said
> thats more of a true efficency rating, so what if the tank isnt hot,
> what do you think goes up the middle of the tank and out the chimney,
> heat!
Here we go again, sombody who does not have a clue to the facts, has
not used one, but can give false information putting them down. I have
a water main incomming on a hill which is too close to the surface
since dirt is going away, when its -10f out my incomming has gotten to
34f. I dont even have my small 117000 btu Bosch on high and the shower
is great. Look at specs, 90f rise is what you can get, 130f water is
to hot and a waste of money. 98f with 39f incomming is only 59f rise,
far short of 90f rise which my unit does, and I have measured it.
Consider something else, Tanks loose 1-3% efficency every year due to
scale buildup at the bottom of the tank, I recently removed a maybe 25
yr old tank with 13" of rock scale in it, I bet it was only 50%
efficent, Tankless dont hold scale, Tankless you just pur in Lime Away
through a valve you add, a simple 30 minute procedure to keep it 100%
efficent 25 years down the road, you cant clean out most tank units.
Tanks loose efficency every year and you cant stop it by flushing it.
YOu stupid fuck in the perfect whirl heat is either gained or lost at the
toilet depends on how warm your turd was and incoming water temp.
--
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Posted by Art on March 16, 2008, 11:07 pm
Whatever you have now, keep it.
Just had to replace a direct vent and estimates were all around $1400 with
just a 6 year tank warranty. Electric would be less than 1/3. I decided to
go with an on demand system to replace the direct vent. It cost around $3k
but at least had a 12 year warranty and normally lasts 20 years.
If you go with a on demand system, consider having the gas company doing it.
Tons of things had to be done including replacing the gas meter. Get a unit
that has a low flow start rate. Stay away from Bosch.
The downside is that the hot water tank was apparently keeping my basement
warm and warming the cold water. So now that cold water in my house is much
colder and so is my basement. An advantage during the summer, disadvantage
during the winter. That is why people think it takes longer for hot water
to show up.... cold water is much colder with an on demand system.
Also if system isn't installed right or you buy wrong one you will get
inadequate flow rate. It gives you unlimited hot water but not immediate or
unlimited flowrate. There are compromises. I like the idea of no tank
though.
> I'd like to switch to a direct vent water heater. Looking at the A.O.
> Smith
> site I get confused with all the models. Efficiency information is hidden.
> There is no convenient chart to distinguish the models. It would seem that
> these are my choice:
>
> ProMax Closed Combustion Power Direct-Vent
> ProMax Power Vent (C3 FVIR)
> Power House Sealed Shot Power Direct-Vent
> Power House Power Shot Power-Vent
>
> But I can't figure out what is different. Plus each of the above has
> variants.
>
> So, what is the most efficient 50 gallon tank water heater with the
> longest
> tank warranty? The run would be about 40 feet and will have a bunch of 90
> degree bends.
>
> Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 > last >>
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