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Natural Gas Furnace & Water Heater Upgrade. Bencrx91 04-06-2007
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Posted by Bencrx91 on April 6, 2007, 12:08 pm
Natural Gas Furnace & Water Heater Upgrade.

Good day all, I have to replace my gas furnace, because the one I have
is dying.

Current Equipment & detail:
125 000 BTU gas fired furnace (chimney type)
50 US Gallons 42 000 BTU gas fired water heater (chimney type)

My house is a bungalow (main floor=1000sq ft. + same size basement)

I live in Canada, Province of Québec - near Ottawa region.
The temperature from dec to april can shift between +10oC to -30oC
(50oF to -22oF)


I had several company come and do estimates:

After looking at different option I have chosen a high eff. dual stage
furnace with variable speed.
For all I could read on the subject, on the long run, it's the best
choice, confort and $ wise.

I had different "brand / type" of furnace offered :

-------------------------------------------------------------------

York 92% Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Affinity 9.V : PV9B12N060UP11

Carrier (up to 96.6% ???) Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Infinity Series
: 58MVB
*(What is "up to 96% ? Is this a marketing catch?)

Goodman 95% Efficiency 2 stage 69 000BTU : GMV95

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know ANYTHING about which brand to get.

Everyone is selling "The Best" type of thing, so realy it's hard to do
a logical choice.
I would like to get a neutral opinion / experience with the brands
above.

I also have questions :

#1
High efficiency furnace are direclty vented outside with an ABS type
pipes.
Can they "cap" the outside part with a "screen" or something similar
to dryer vent so birds/mices don't enter the pipes?

#2
High efficiency furnace - 2 stages models, apparently required a "dual
stage enabled thermostat"
in order to get the full potentialof the furnace... Some sellers says
that you NEED IT, some other said you don't need it
since the 'controller' on the furnace take care of that.

Some other sellers said that you don't need it, but it would be even
more efficient to have one - confort wise and for gas consumption $.
Since the furnace not equipped with the 2 stages thermostat will run
for 8 minutes before going on the 2nd stage if required.


#3
NOISE:
High efficiency Furnace and Water heater are equiped with a 'POWER
VENT' ; Are these noisy ?
Overall, the noise of my new high. eff. equipments equipped with
power-vents should be lower than the noise of my current furnace?

#4
High efficiency water heater - is it worth it ?
Currenlty my old water heater is rented at a rate of 10.50 cdn$/month
The new High Efficiency water heater would cost 16.80 cdn$/month
My Gas consumption for the water heater is approx. 40 cubic meter per
month @ approx 0.60$/cubic meter = 24$

How much efficiency would I get from a high efficiency water heater?
Would it cover the rental $ difference between the 16.80$ ad 10.50
model = 6.30$ ?
(or will I save at least 10.5 cubic meter of gas per month or 25% ) ?


Could you point me in the right direction?
Thanks in advance,
Ben

Bencrx91@hotmail.com







Posted by jamesgangnc on April 6, 2007, 1:02 pm
> Natural Gas Furnace & Water Heater Upgrade.
>
> Good day all, I have to replace my gas furnace, because the one I have
> is dying.
>
> Current Equipment & detail:
> 125 000 BTU gas fired furnace (chimney type)
> 50 US Gallons 42 000 BTU gas fired water heater (chimney type)
>
> My house is a bungalow (main floor=3D1000sq ft. + same size basement)
>
> I live in Canada, Province of Qu=E9bec - near Ottawa region.
> The temperature from dec to april can shift between +10oC to -30oC
> (50oF to -22oF)
>
> I had several company come and do estimates:
>
> After looking at different option I have chosen a high eff. dual stage
> furnace with variable speed.
> For all I could read on the subject, on the long run, it's the best
> choice, confort and $ wise.
>
> I had different "brand / type" of furnace offered :
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> York 92% Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Affinity 9.V : PV9B12N060UP11
>
> Carrier (up to 96.6% ???) Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Infinity Series
> : 58MVB
> *(What is "up to 96% ? Is this a marketing catch?)
>
> Goodman 95% Efficiency 2 stage 69 000BTU : GMV95
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't know ANYTHING about which brand to get.
>
> Everyone is selling "The Best" type of thing, so realy it's hard to do
> a logical choice.
> I would like to get a neutral opinion / experience with the brands
> above.
>
> I also have questions :
>
> #1
> High efficiency furnace are direclty vented outside with an ABS type
> pipes.
> Can they "cap" the outside part with a "screen" or something similar
> to dryer vent so birds/mices don't enter the pipes?
>
> #2
> High efficiency furnace - 2 stages models, apparently required a "dual
> stage enabled thermostat"
> in order to get the full potentialof the furnace... Some sellers says
> that you NEED IT, some other said you don't need it
> since the 'controller' on the furnace take care of that.
>
> Some other sellers said that you don't need it, but it would be even
> more efficient to have one - confort wise and for gas consumption $.
> Since the furnace not equipped with the 2 stages thermostat will run
> for 8 minutes before going on the 2nd stage if required.
>
> #3
> NOISE:
> High efficiency Furnace and Water heater are equiped with a 'POWER
> VENT' ; Are these noisy ?
> Overall, the noise of my new high. eff. equipments equipped with
> power-vents should be lower than the noise of my current furnace?
>
> #4
> High efficiency water heater - is it worth it ?
> Currenlty my old water heater is rented at a rate of 10.50 cdn$/month
> The new High Efficiency water heater would cost 16.80 cdn$/month
> My Gas consumption for the water heater is approx. 40 cubic meter per
> month @ approx 0.60$/cubic meter =3D 24$
>
> How much efficiency would I get from a high efficiency water heater?
> Would it cover the rental $ difference between the 16.80$ ad 10.50
> model =3D 6.30$ ?
> (or will I save at least 10.5 cubic meter of gas per month or 25% ) ?
>
> Could you point me in the right direction?
> Thanks in advance,
> Ben
>
> Bencr...@hotmail.com

Some people consider goodman to be the "chevy" of hvac systems.
Finding a good installer that is familiar with what he is installing
and has a good track record will make a lot more difference in how
trouble free the system is down the road.

1=2E Yes they can put a guard on to keep birds out.
2=2E You are spending a lot of money to get a hi-eff system, get the
thermostat too.
3=2E Not noisy. It's a small fan.
4=2E I do not think you will have a 25% increase in efficiency. If you
are you are going to be there a while you'd probably save by buying a
hot water heater instead of renting one. If you figure a hot water
heater is good for 12 years you are paying $1,512 for it.


Posted by on April 6, 2007, 4:32 pm
On 6 Apr 2007 10:02:43 -0700, "jamesgangnc"

>> Natural Gas Furnace & Water Heater Upgrade.
>>
>> Good day all, I have to replace my gas furnace, because the one I have
>> is dying.
>>
>> Current Equipment & detail:
>> 125 000 BTU gas fired furnace (chimney type)
>> 50 US Gallons 42 000 BTU gas fired water heater (chimney type)
>>
>> My house is a bungalow (main floor=1000sq ft. + same size basement)
>>
>> I live in Canada, Province of Québec - near Ottawa region.
>> The temperature from dec to april can shift between +10oC to -30oC
>> (50oF to -22oF)
>>
>> I had several company come and do estimates:
>>
>> After looking at different option I have chosen a high eff. dual stage
>> furnace with variable speed.
>> For all I could read on the subject, on the long run, it's the best
>> choice, confort and $ wise.
>>
>> I had different "brand / type" of furnace offered :
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> York 92% Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Affinity 9.V : PV9B12N060UP11
>>
>> Carrier (up to 96.6% ???) Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Infinity Series
>> : 58MVB
>> *(What is "up to 96% ? Is this a marketing catch?)
>>
>> Goodman 95% Efficiency 2 stage 69 000BTU : GMV95
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I don't know ANYTHING about which brand to get.
>>
>> Everyone is selling "The Best" type of thing, so realy it's hard to do
>> a logical choice.
>> I would like to get a neutral opinion / experience with the brands
>> above.
>>
>> I also have questions :
>>
>> #1
>> High efficiency furnace are direclty vented outside with an ABS type
>> pipes.
>> Can they "cap" the outside part with a "screen" or something similar
>> to dryer vent so birds/mices don't enter the pipes?
>>
>> #2
>> High efficiency furnace - 2 stages models, apparently required a "dual
>> stage enabled thermostat"
>> in order to get the full potentialof the furnace... Some sellers says
>> that you NEED IT, some other said you don't need it
>> since the 'controller' on the furnace take care of that.
>>
>> Some other sellers said that you don't need it, but it would be even
>> more efficient to have one - confort wise and for gas consumption $.
>> Since the furnace not equipped with the 2 stages thermostat will run
>> for 8 minutes before going on the 2nd stage if required.
>>
>> #3
>> NOISE:
>> High efficiency Furnace and Water heater are equiped with a 'POWER
>> VENT' ; Are these noisy ?
>> Overall, the noise of my new high. eff. equipments equipped with
>> power-vents should be lower than the noise of my current furnace?
>>
>> #4
>> High efficiency water heater - is it worth it ?
>> Currenlty my old water heater is rented at a rate of 10.50 cdn$/month
>> The new High Efficiency water heater would cost 16.80 cdn$/month
>> My Gas consumption for the water heater is approx. 40 cubic meter per
>> month @ approx 0.60$/cubic meter = 24$
>>
>> How much efficiency would I get from a high efficiency water heater?
>> Would it cover the rental $ difference between the 16.80$ ad 10.50
>> model = 6.30$ ?
>> (or will I save at least 10.5 cubic meter of gas per month or 25% ) ?
>>
>> Could you point me in the right direction?
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Ben
>>
>> Bencr...@hotmail.com
>
>Some people consider goodman to be the "chevy" of hvac systems.


try "Yugo" instead of "chevy".







>Finding a good installer that is familiar with what he is installing
>and has a good track record will make a lot more difference in how
>trouble free the system is down the road.
>
>1. Yes they can put a guard on to keep birds out.
>2. You are spending a lot of money to get a hi-eff system, get the
>thermostat too.
>3. Not noisy. It's a small fan.
>4. I do not think you will have a 25% increase in efficiency. If you
>are you are going to be there a while you'd probably save by buying a
>hot water heater instead of renting one. If you figure a hot water
>heater is good for 12 years you are paying $1,512 for it.


Posted by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tekkie=AE?= on April 7, 2007, 8:59 pm
Bencrx91 wrote:
> Natural Gas Furnace & Water Heater Upgrade.
>
> Good day all, I have to replace my gas furnace, because the one I have
> is dying.
>
> Current Equipment & detail:
> 125 000 BTU gas fired furnace (chimney type)
> 50 US Gallons 42 000 BTU gas fired water heater (chimney type)
>
> My house is a bungalow (main floor=1000sq ft. + same size basement)
>
> I live in Canada, Province of Québec - near Ottawa region.
> The temperature from dec to april can shift between +10oC to -30oC
> (50oF to -22oF)
>
>
> I had several company come and do estimates:
>
> After looking at different option I have chosen a high eff. dual stage
> furnace with variable speed.
> For all I could read on the subject, on the long run, it's the best
> choice, confort and $ wise.
>
> I had different "brand / type" of furnace offered :
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> York 92% Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Affinity 9.V : PV9B12N060UP11
>
> Carrier (up to 96.6% ???) Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Infinity Series
> : 58MVB
> *(What is "up to 96% ? Is this a marketing catch?)
>
> Goodman 95% Efficiency 2 stage 69 000BTU : GMV95
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't know ANYTHING about which brand to get.
>
> Everyone is selling "The Best" type of thing, so realy it's hard to do
> a logical choice.
> I would like to get a neutral opinion / experience with the brands
> above.
>
> I also have questions :
>
> #1
> High efficiency furnace are direclty vented outside with an ABS type
> pipes.
> Can they "cap" the outside part with a "screen" or something similar
> to dryer vent so birds/mices don't enter the pipes?
>
> #2
> High efficiency furnace - 2 stages models, apparently required a "dual
> stage enabled thermostat"
> in order to get the full potentialof the furnace... Some sellers says
> that you NEED IT, some other said you don't need it
> since the 'controller' on the furnace take care of that.
>
> Some other sellers said that you don't need it, but it would be even
> more efficient to have one - confort wise and for gas consumption $.
> Since the furnace not equipped with the 2 stages thermostat will run
> for 8 minutes before going on the 2nd stage if required.
>
>
> #3
> NOISE:
> High efficiency Furnace and Water heater are equiped with a 'POWER
> VENT' ; Are these noisy ?
> Overall, the noise of my new high. eff. equipments equipped with
> power-vents should be lower than the noise of my current furnace?
>
> #4
> High efficiency water heater - is it worth it ?
> Currenlty my old water heater is rented at a rate of 10.50 cdn$/month
> The new High Efficiency water heater would cost 16.80 cdn$/month
> My Gas consumption for the water heater is approx. 40 cubic meter per
> month @ approx 0.60$/cubic meter = 24$
>
> How much efficiency would I get from a high efficiency water heater?
> Would it cover the rental $ difference between the 16.80$ ad 10.50
> model = 6.30$ ?
> (or will I save at least 10.5 cubic meter of gas per month or 25% ) ?
>
>
> Could you point me in the right direction?
> Thanks in advance,

That a'way <>

> Ben
>
> Bencrx91@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

Posted by danger on April 8, 2007, 1:15 am
#1
> It's usually recommended, NOT to cover the pipes with anything. The only
problem I find with those pipes is snow, or occasional spider webs and leaves.
>
#2
> A single stage thermostat will run any of the furnaces you mentioned above no
problem. A 12-16min Low Fire cycle is fine.
>
>
#3
> Yup, it's gonna be louder then the old conventional vent furnace and water
heater.
>
#4
> Common mis conception. A power vent water heater is not high efficiency. A
condensing water heater like most tankless or combo units are high efficiency,
but not a power vented tank. I would never own a power vent tank.
Conventional vent tank is worth owning, they rarely break down. You will have
paid $1500 for your existing tank over 15 years renting it. You could have your
own installed for $800 at the most. Power vent tanks have more parts,
failures and won't heat without power.
>
> How much efficiency would I get from a high efficiency water heater?

A power vent water heater is 80% max. Now you have the cost of electricity to
run the motor. A standard tank runs around 70%+.
I'm not sure if by eliminating the chimney, it would resuslt in less heat loss,
which would then cover the cost. I can't really see much benifit of a power
vent water heater over a conventional vent, besides recovery time. People
that have the power vent claim to save money though.

Personally I would go with the high efficiency furnace, but I would keep my
conventional vented water heater up the chimney, because it's more reliable,
cheaper to own and repair, and will heat without hydro.


-Canadian Heat





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