Home Page link

New Trane system rumbles on startup/shutdown, and other issues

Home| Search | About
Login Password
Register Now! Lost Password?

HVAC Discussions - Heating, ventilation and air conditioning. 

Page 4 of 8       < 1 2 3 > last >> Bookmark this page:  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
New Trane system rumbles on startup/shutdown, and other issues Jason 12-12-2006
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Posted by Noon-Air on December 12, 2006, 8:36 pm

>
> Bubba wrote:
>>
>> >I had a new Trane system installed recently in my home. It is an xl14i
>> >heat pump and xv90 gas furnace. When the heat turns on, there is a 1
>> >second rumble/vibration somewhere in the furnace, and about a 2 second
>> >rumble when the system shuts down. I've had the installer out 3 times
>> >and they can never fix it. Seems like they make it quieter, but in a
>> >couple days it's back. The furnace is in the garage and backs to one
>> >of the walls of our primary living area, so it is rather annoying to
>> >hear the thing rumble on and off. Has anyone else had similar issues?
>> >I don't want to pay > $10K for this new system, which is supposed to be
>> >so quiet I won't even know it's on (yeah, right).
>>
>> Too late. It looks like you already paid the 10K. Get another Trane
>> dealer if that one cant find or fix the problem.
>> >
>> >Also, I have some issues with the system heating the house in the
>> >morning. I have a 2500 sq ft home, 2 floors. The thermostat is
>> >upstairs. On a typical morning, 45 degrees outside, house is at around
>> >65. At 7am I have it programmed to heat to 70. I have the adaptive
>> >intelligence thing turned off.
>>
>> That's kinda stupid of you. Its built into the stat for a reason. So
>> you dont have to guess how long it will take for your system to heat
>> up your home. Its also smart enough to know whether it can heat your
>> home with the heat pump only or if it needs to use the gas furnace to
>> accomplish this. All this thinking is done for you if you'd just turn
>> the damn adaptive intelligent recovery option on.
>>
>
> The installers turned it OFF by default. They said they always turn it
> off because it doesn't work very well. I turned it on myself to see
> for myself, and when the system started turning on at 3:30 in the
> morning, and still failing to heat the house to 70 by 7am, I turned it
> back off.
>
>> >First thing it does is start up the
>> >heat pump. After a minute or so it switches over to gas, then it
>> >cycles back and forth between heat pump/gas, and it ends up taking
>> >about 2 hours or longer to heat the house up 5 degrees to 70. I went
>> >into the programming of the thermostat and changed one option to make
>> >the recovery ramp more aggressive, and it seemed to help some, keeping
>> >the gas heat on longer, but it still cycles back and forth. I would
>> >figure the system would be smart enough to immediately go to gas, ramp
>> >up quickly as possible to 70, then switch to heat pump for the rest..
>> >Is that too much to ask for? Is there any way I can program this
>> >better?
>>
>> Read above comment. You turned that feature off,
>> remember.....Einstein?
>
> As I mentioned above, turning on adaptive recovery does not do anything
> near what I describe in this paragraph. I don't want the heat pump
> running at 3 in the morning. It is loud and I don't want it waking me
> or my neighbors up. When I described the cycling to the installers,
> they didn't have a clue what to do.
>
>> >
>> >One more thing, how do I know if the second stage heat is actually
>> >working? Should I hear the furnace speed up or feel more air coming
>> >out of the registers? Does second stage heat system work with both the
>> >heat pump and gas, or just when the gas is running?
>> >Thanks for any help
>> >Jason
>>
>> 1st stage is heat pump
>> 2nd stage is low fire gas heat
>> 3rd stage is high fire gas heat
>> High heat will ramp up the blower speed
>> You need to have someone come out and re-check/change all the settings
>> to where they belong. You should pay him since you've been in there
>> "mucking" around with that which you shouldnt have.
>
> So is this then considered a 3H/1C system? Does the thermostat handle
> the low/high gas or is it all done independently?
>
> I only changed the adaptive intelligence on/off and the recovery ramp,
> measuring how each behaved independently to gauge how it effects the
> system. I didn't "muck" with all the settings haphazardly.

really??? and you don't even know what "setback temperature" is??

Call the installing company back and have them send a proper tech out to
correct what you screwed up on the thermostat, and check out the other
issues too.



Posted by Bubba on December 12, 2006, 8:42 pm

>
>Bubba wrote:
>>
>> >I had a new Trane system installed recently in my home. It is an xl14i
>> >heat pump and xv90 gas furnace. When the heat turns on, there is a 1
>> >second rumble/vibration somewhere in the furnace, and about a 2 second
>> >rumble when the system shuts down. I've had the installer out 3 times
>> >and they can never fix it. Seems like they make it quieter, but in a
>> >couple days it's back. The furnace is in the garage and backs to one
>> >of the walls of our primary living area, so it is rather annoying to
>> >hear the thing rumble on and off. Has anyone else had similar issues?
>> >I don't want to pay > $10K for this new system, which is supposed to be
>> >so quiet I won't even know it's on (yeah, right).
>>
>> Too late. It looks like you already paid the 10K. Get another Trane
>> dealer if that one cant find or fix the problem.
>> >
>> >Also, I have some issues with the system heating the house in the
>> >morning. I have a 2500 sq ft home, 2 floors. The thermostat is
>> >upstairs. On a typical morning, 45 degrees outside, house is at around
>> >65. At 7am I have it programmed to heat to 70. I have the adaptive
>> >intelligence thing turned off.
>>
>> That's kinda stupid of you. Its built into the stat for a reason. So
>> you dont have to guess how long it will take for your system to heat
>> up your home. Its also smart enough to know whether it can heat your
>> home with the heat pump only or if it needs to use the gas furnace to
>> accomplish this. All this thinking is done for you if you'd just turn
>> the damn adaptive intelligent recovery option on.
>>
>
>The installers turned it OFF by default. They said they always turn it
>off because it doesn't work very well. I turned it on myself to see
>for myself, and when the system started turning on at 3:30 in the
>morning, and still failing to heat the house to 70 by 7am, I turned it
>back off.
>
>> >First thing it does is start up the
>> >heat pump. After a minute or so it switches over to gas, then it
>> >cycles back and forth between heat pump/gas, and it ends up taking
>> >about 2 hours or longer to heat the house up 5 degrees to 70. I went
>> >into the programming of the thermostat and changed one option to make
>> >the recovery ramp more aggressive, and it seemed to help some, keeping
>> >the gas heat on longer, but it still cycles back and forth. I would
>> >figure the system would be smart enough to immediately go to gas, ramp
>> >up quickly as possible to 70, then switch to heat pump for the rest..
>> >Is that too much to ask for? Is there any way I can program this
>> >better?
>>
>> Read above comment. You turned that feature off,
>> remember.....Einstein?
>
>As I mentioned above, turning on adaptive recovery does not do anything
>near what I describe in this paragraph. I don't want the heat pump
>running at 3 in the morning. It is loud and I don't want it waking me
>or my neighbors up. When I described the cycling to the installers,
>they didn't have a clue what to do.
>
>> >
>> >One more thing, how do I know if the second stage heat is actually
>> >working? Should I hear the furnace speed up or feel more air coming
>> >out of the registers? Does second stage heat system work with both the
>> >heat pump and gas, or just when the gas is running?
>> >Thanks for any help
>> >Jason
>>
>> 1st stage is heat pump
>> 2nd stage is low fire gas heat
>> 3rd stage is high fire gas heat
>> High heat will ramp up the blower speed
>> You need to have someone come out and re-check/change all the settings
>> to where they belong. You should pay him since you've been in there
>> "mucking" around with that which you shouldnt have.
>
>So is this then considered a 3H/1C system? Does the thermostat handle
>the low/high gas or is it all done independently?
>
>I only changed the adaptive intelligence on/off and the recovery ramp,
>measuring how each behaved independently to gauge how it effects the
>system. I didn't "muck" with all the settings haphazardly.

At this stage of the game you need to start over. You need to have
everything checked out to see if it is all wired correctly, charged
correctly and installed correctly. From what you've explained Id find
someone other than who you had install it. They are complete idiots or
lazy or both.
The Adaptive Intelligent Recovery feature works very well. It is
designed to save you money by using the first stage heat pump to heat
your home as much as it can. Depending on how far you set your stat
back at night, how cold out it is and the balance point of your home,
your system may come on at 3:30am and even earlier.....much earlier.
It may take several days or more for your thermostat to develop a
memory of how early to start your system in the morning.
Your 14 SEER Trane heat pump is NOT noisey. If it is, it is not
installed properly. They are very quiet.
If your system is wired properly the stat will control all 3 stages.
If the installer were lazy, then the furnace control board dip switch
will control the last stage of heat according to time............and
Yes, you have a 3H-1C system.
As of now, you've wasted a ton of money on a system that isnt working
anywhere near how it should.
Bubba

Posted by Joseph on December 12, 2006, 9:04 pm

>
> >
> >Bubba wrote:
> >>
> >> >I had a new Trane system installed recently in my home. It is an xl14i
> >> >heat pump and xv90 gas furnace. When the heat turns on, there is a 1
> >> >second rumble/vibration somewhere in the furnace, and about a 2 second
> >> >rumble when the system shuts down. I've had the installer out 3 times
> >> >and they can never fix it. Seems like they make it quieter, but in a
> >> >couple days it's back. The furnace is in the garage and backs to one
> >> >of the walls of our primary living area, so it is rather annoying to
> >> >hear the thing rumble on and off. Has anyone else had similar issues?
> >> >I don't want to pay > $10K for this new system, which is supposed to be
> >> >so quiet I won't even know it's on (yeah, right).
> >>
> >> Too late. It looks like you already paid the 10K. Get another Trane
> >> dealer if that one cant find or fix the problem.
> >> >
> >> >Also, I have some issues with the system heating the house in the
> >> >morning. I have a 2500 sq ft home, 2 floors. The thermostat is
> >> >upstairs. On a typical morning, 45 degrees outside, house is at around
> >> >65. At 7am I have it programmed to heat to 70. I have the adaptive
> >> >intelligence thing turned off.
> >>
> >> That's kinda stupid of you. Its built into the stat for a reason. So
> >> you dont have to guess how long it will take for your system to heat
> >> up your home. Its also smart enough to know whether it can heat your
> >> home with the heat pump only or if it needs to use the gas furnace to
> >> accomplish this. All this thinking is done for you if you'd just turn
> >> the damn adaptive intelligent recovery option on.
> >>
> >
> >The installers turned it OFF by default. They said they always turn it
> >off because it doesn't work very well. I turned it on myself to see
> >for myself, and when the system started turning on at 3:30 in the
> >morning, and still failing to heat the house to 70 by 7am, I turned it
> >back off.
> >
> >> >First thing it does is start up the
> >> >heat pump. After a minute or so it switches over to gas, then it
> >> >cycles back and forth between heat pump/gas, and it ends up taking
> >> >about 2 hours or longer to heat the house up 5 degrees to 70. I went
> >> >into the programming of the thermostat and changed one option to make
> >> >the recovery ramp more aggressive, and it seemed to help some, keeping
> >> >the gas heat on longer, but it still cycles back and forth. I would
> >> >figure the system would be smart enough to immediately go to gas, ramp
> >> >up quickly as possible to 70, then switch to heat pump for the rest..
> >> >Is that too much to ask for? Is there any way I can program this
> >> >better?
> >>
> >> Read above comment. You turned that feature off,
> >> remember.....Einstein?
> >
> >As I mentioned above, turning on adaptive recovery does not do anything
> >near what I describe in this paragraph. I don't want the heat pump
> >running at 3 in the morning. It is loud and I don't want it waking me
> >or my neighbors up. When I described the cycling to the installers,
> >they didn't have a clue what to do.
> >
> >> >
> >> >One more thing, how do I know if the second stage heat is actually
> >> >working? Should I hear the furnace speed up or feel more air coming
> >> >out of the registers? Does second stage heat system work with both the
> >> >heat pump and gas, or just when the gas is running?
> >> >Thanks for any help
> >> >Jason
> >>
> >> 1st stage is heat pump
> >> 2nd stage is low fire gas heat
> >> 3rd stage is high fire gas heat
> >> High heat will ramp up the blower speed
> >> You need to have someone come out and re-check/change all the settings
> >> to where they belong. You should pay him since you've been in there
> >> "mucking" around with that which you shouldnt have.
> >
> >So is this then considered a 3H/1C system? Does the thermostat handle
> >the low/high gas or is it all done independently?
> >
> >I only changed the adaptive intelligence on/off and the recovery ramp,
> >measuring how each behaved independently to gauge how it effects the
> >system. I didn't "muck" with all the settings haphazardly.
>
> At this stage of the game you need to start over. You need to have
> everything checked out to see if it is all wired correctly, charged
> correctly and installed correctly. From what you've explained Id find
> someone other than who you had install it. They are complete idiots or
> lazy or both.
> The Adaptive Intelligent Recovery feature works very well. It is
> designed to save you money by using the first stage heat pump to heat
> your home as much as it can. Depending on how far you set your stat
> back at night, how cold out it is and the balance point of your home,
> your system may come on at 3:30am and even earlier.....much earlier.
> It may take several days or more for your thermostat to develop a
> memory of how early to start your system in the morning.
> Your 14 SEER Trane heat pump is NOT noisey. If it is, it is not
> installed properly. They are very quiet.
> If your system is wired properly the stat will control all 3 stages.
> If the installer were lazy, then the furnace control board dip switch
> will control the last stage of heat according to time............and
> Yes, you have a 3H-1C system.
> As of now, you've wasted a ton of money on a system that isnt working
> anywhere near how it should.
> Bubba

Good post Bubba,

To OP: Read this post carefully. It is right on target.


Posted by Jason on December 13, 2006, 12:10 am

>
> At this stage of the game you need to start over. You need to have
> everything checked out to see if it is all wired correctly, charged
> correctly and installed correctly. From what you've explained Id find
> someone other than who you had install it. They are complete idiots or
> lazy or both.
> The Adaptive Intelligent Recovery feature works very well. It is
> designed to save you money by using the first stage heat pump to heat
> your home as much as it can. Depending on how far you set your stat
> back at night, how cold out it is and the balance point of your home,
> your system may come on at 3:30am and even earlier.....much earlier.
> It may take several days or more for your thermostat to develop a
> memory of how early to start your system in the morning.
> Your 14 SEER Trane heat pump is NOT noisey. If it is, it is not
> installed properly. They are very quiet.
> If your system is wired properly the stat will control all 3 stages.
> If the installer were lazy, then the furnace control board dip switch
> will control the last stage of heat according to time............and
> Yes, you have a 3H-1C system.
> As of now, you've wasted a ton of money on a system that isnt working
> anywhere near how it should.
> Bubba

Thanks, I figured I'd eventually have to get someone else out here. I
was hoping to learn as much as I can about the system in general from
you folks beforehand so I have some clue as to what to look for.

I can re-enable the intelligent recovery again and see how it goes.
>From a savings perspective, is 4 hours of heat pump generally more
efficient than 2 hours of gas? Is there a general rule of thumb? If
I'm saving a lot with the sole use of the heat pump than I'd feel
better about the long startup.. And yes, the heat pump is quiet, much
quieter than my previous A/C, but at 4am in the dead of night, it can
still wake me up since it's close to my bedroom.

Another thing the installer did that I didn't think was right was
ratchet down the cfm output to try to fix/mask the noise issues. It
was originally set to normal, they dropped it down to medium-low, when
I still complained a week later, they dropped it down again to low.
Won't this affect the efficiency of the system? Should I put it back
to 'normal' since it did nothing for the rumble/vibration issues? They
also have the Comfort-R disabled. Is that something that I should be
enabling?

I know my way around electronics, is there anything specific I could
check to see if there is any screwed up wiring or settings?

Thanks
Jason


Posted by Jason on December 13, 2006, 1:01 am

Jason wrote:
> >
> > At this stage of the game you need to start over. You need to have
> > everything checked out to see if it is all wired correctly, charged
> > correctly and installed correctly. From what you've explained Id find
> > someone other than who you had install it. They are complete idiots or
> > lazy or both.
> > The Adaptive Intelligent Recovery feature works very well. It is
> > designed to save you money by using the first stage heat pump to heat
> > your home as much as it can. Depending on how far you set your stat
> > back at night, how cold out it is and the balance point of your home,
> > your system may come on at 3:30am and even earlier.....much earlier.
> > It may take several days or more for your thermostat to develop a
> > memory of how early to start your system in the morning.
> > Your 14 SEER Trane heat pump is NOT noisey. If it is, it is not
> > installed properly. They are very quiet.
> > If your system is wired properly the stat will control all 3 stages.
> > If the installer were lazy, then the furnace control board dip switch
> > will control the last stage of heat according to time............and
> > Yes, you have a 3H-1C system.
> > As of now, you've wasted a ton of money on a system that isnt working
> > anywhere near how it should.
> > Bubba
>
> Thanks, I figured I'd eventually have to get someone else out here. I
> was hoping to learn as much as I can about the system in general from
> you folks beforehand so I have some clue as to what to look for.
>
> I can re-enable the intelligent recovery again and see how it goes.
> >From a savings perspective, is 4 hours of heat pump generally more
> efficient than 2 hours of gas? Is there a general rule of thumb? If
> I'm saving a lot with the sole use of the heat pump than I'd feel
> better about the long startup.. And yes, the heat pump is quiet, much
> quieter than my previous A/C, but at 4am in the dead of night, it can
> still wake me up since it's close to my bedroom.
>
> Another thing the installer did that I didn't think was right was
> ratchet down the cfm output to try to fix/mask the noise issues. It
> was originally set to normal, they dropped it down to medium-low, when
> I still complained a week later, they dropped it down again to low.
> Won't this affect the efficiency of the system? Should I put it back
> to 'normal' since it did nothing for the rumble/vibration issues? They
> also have the Comfort-R disabled. Is that something that I should be
> enabling?
>
> I know my way around electronics, is there anything specific I could
> check to see if there is any screwed up wiring or settings?
>
> Thanks
> Jason

I peeked around the circuit board a bit. Here is what I've found that
seems incorrect:
It says to jumper W1 and W2 for single stage heating, and it'll use the
time delay to enable second stage. I have W1 and W2 jumpered.

It says for heat pump systems, Y and O should be connected to the
low-voltage terminal board. O is not connected to anything in my
board.

For two speed system, use YLO for low speed, and Y for high speed
connection to the low-voltage terminal board. YLO is unconnected in my
board.

I also see a Heat Pump add-on box attached to the furnace. From what I
can gather, this seems to take the place of the thermostat to control
when the to use heat pump or gas:

"If the outdoor temperature is below the balance point of the system,
and the heat pump cannot handle the load, when the temperature in the
room drops approximately 1-1/2 degrees further, second stage heat is
called for. Second stage turns the heat pump off and simultaneously
brings the furnace on. The furnace will now satisfy the second stage
only. The first stage of the thermostat is still calling. After a
minimum delay of 45 seconds, the heat pump will resume operation. If
the indoor temperature continues to rise, the thermostat will be
satisfied. If indoor temperature does not continue to rise but falls,
the second stage will call and bring on the gas furnace again."

I guess this explains why W1/W2 are jumpered, this add on kit is doing
the work. Why did they choose to use this instead of the system
itself? This might also explain the cycling I experience...


Page 4 of 8       < 1 2 3 > last >>
Similar ThreadsPosted
Issues with a Trane TDE100A February 14, 2007, 9:42 pm
Trane TXV problems on XR-13 4 ton split system February 7, 2007, 12:37 pm
Need recommendation about new Trane system for Atlanta area. July 5, 2007, 10:35 am
Gas furnace issues November 4, 2006, 11:03 am
Hoffman #75 Vent Issues October 17, 2007, 11:18 pm
dukane furnace rumbles w/fume smell December 18, 2006, 6:06 pm
Re: Intermittent high pressure in hot water heating system system February 3, 2007, 9:46 am
Re: Intermittent high pressure in hot water heating system system February 4, 2007, 3:49 pm
Re: Intermittent high pressure in hot water heating system system February 4, 2007, 3:54 pm
Re: Intermittent high pressure in hot water heating system system February 4, 2007, 3:43 pm

Contact Us | Privacy Policy

XML SitemapXML Sitemap