OT fuel prices and the economy

Posted by Noon-Air on June 3, 2009, 6:55 pm

> Steve wrote:

>> Please forward this on to anybody and everybody that you think might
>> be able to make a difference. BTW.. for those who don't think what I
>> wrote is true, check your balance sheets over the last couple of
>> years and look for the pattern.
>> JSN
>> The country doesn't run on Wall Street or government.. It runs on all
>> of the micro economies across the country. I'm not talking about the
>> big metropolises; I am talking about all of the areas across the
>> country that are similar to the Mississippi pine belt. These micro
>> economies are very fragile and can be easily upset by as little as a
>> 25 cent increase in the price of fuels.
>> A personal observation if you will.. Mid June 2008 when the price of
>> oil and fuels peaked, there were almost no vehicles on the road, and
>> nobody in the stores. They had no money to spend..it was all going to
>> fuel their vehicles so they could get back and forth to work. Within
>> a week or so after the price of fuels dropped in the fall, there was
>> traffic on the roads again, and people were in the stores spending
>> money again, because every dime didn't
>> have to go in the gas tank.
>> Fast forward to February 2009.. People had gotten some "breathing
>> room" in their finances, and were getting caught up so they had more
>> money to spend..This is what was stimulating the local economy. People
>> were on the roads and in the stores because they had
>> disposable income again. Now in the last month, the price of
>> gasoline has come real close to doubling again because the
>> speculators have seen the national economy start to rebound, and the
>> price of oil and fuels have jumped by leaps and bounds again. Plain
>> old working folks can't afford to take vacations, and are having a
>> hard time making ends meet again.. All because of the increased price
>> of fuels.
>> Now in May 2009, fuel prices are on the rise again, traffic on the
>> roads is disappearing again, money flow has all but come to a
>> screeching halt again, and retail businesses are already feeling it
>> in reduced revenue. This is just the beginning. the trickledown effect is
>> that there is a reduced demand for goods and services,
>> retailers and manufacturers will have to lay off even more people, or
>> close. The costs for transporting products and materials will rise
>> even more.
>> If the economy is to truly rebound and recover, the price gouging by
>> big oil and speculators MUST stop, the refineries must be brought
>> back up to normal production levels again as well as opening back up
>> all the platforms and production facilities. As I recall, the
>> refineries have cut their production capacity down by 80% or more, as
>> well as shutting down enough platforms and facilities to have to lay
>> off thousands of workers.. All for the purpose of artificially
>> increasing the price of oil and fuels.
>> Here's a news flash. there is no more "travel season" because people
>> can't afford it. People don't have the disposable income to spend. If
>> the oil companies want to make more money, they can increase
>> production, to lower the price of gasoline and fuels to where they
>> *should* be, and keep it that way. For that matter, instead of
>> raising the price of fuels in summer, the prices need to drop so
>> people can afford to take their vacations, and can afford to travel,
>> and be able to spend more money.
>> Want to raise gas and fuel prices?? Just remember that to raise
>> gasoline and fuel prices comes at a great cost , and not just to the
>> oil companies profits.. It will do more to destroy the entire country
>> and the national economy, and is counterproductive to making money
>> flow and "stimulating" the economy than anything else.
>> --
>> Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C
>> Noon-Air@comcast.net
>> Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons because, to them,
>> you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

> Maybe Steve, that's why folks couldn't afford to make their house
> payments? And, as more and more property was released to the banks, [no
> payments coming in] - credit dried up for many. Since the available home
> inventory has increased, the prices of real estate fell. As the home
> values fell, more and more let their homes go back, and, since there's
> little confidence in the economy, less and less spending occurred [not
> knowing if they would receive their next paycheck.] Less and less
> spending slowed cash flow, less cash flow results in people being laid off
> and, as for manufacturing, less is needed for inventory - which results in
> less workers. And, here we are.... :( - no one buying cars, eathing out,
> buying air conditioners, or working for that matter.
> --
> Zyp

Consider... when gas prices were low in February, I sold and installed 6 new
14SEER heat pump systems, and worked through my backlog of calls throudh
about the end of march....the price of gasoline went up, and the number of
calls started dropping.... over the last 2 weeks since gasoline has gone up
to $2.40+/gallon, my phone has all but stopped ringing....3 calls all last
week. Yes I track these trends, and they are tied in with the price of
gasoline. We don't have public transportation here, and the average commute
for folks to work is 10 - 20 miles each way. Wages here are not real
high.... Wally World pays $6.50 - $8.50/hr, and most of the rest of retail
is in that range. THere are not a lot of manufacturing jobs here, and they
are at maybe $10.00 - $12.00/hr. A lot of folks in these parts work(ed) in
the gulf oil patch, and with the refineries being closed down, or capacities
reduced, as well as the large number of platforms and facilities being shut
down, it doesn't bode well with this particular micro-economy. All in the
name of oil companies trying to artificially raise the price of oil/fuel.

Posted by Don Ocean on June 4, 2009, 1:09 am

Zyp wrote:

> Steve wrote:

>
> Maybe Steve, that's why folks couldn't afford to make their house payments?
> And, as more and more property was released to the banks, [no payments
> coming in] - credit dried up for many. Since the available home inventory
> has increased, the prices of real estate fell. As the home values fell,
> more and more let their homes go back, and, since there's little confidence
> in the economy, less and less spending occurred [not knowing if they would
> receive their next paycheck.] Less and less spending slowed cash flow, less
> cash flow results in people being laid off and, as for manufacturing, less
> is needed for inventory - which results in less workers. And, here we
> are.... :( - no one buying cars, eathing out, buying air conditioners, or
> working for that matter.

HVAC Market is doing well here. I guess a lot of us are just too
conservative to be caught without set aside for a rainy day.

Posted by Bubba on June 4, 2009, 8:53 pm

wrote:

>Zyp wrote:

>> Steve wrote:

>>> Please forward this on to anybody and everybody that you think might
>>> be able to make a difference. BTW.. for those who don't think what I
>>> wrote is true, check your balance sheets over the last couple of
>>> years and look for the pattern.
>>> JSN
>>> The country doesn't run on Wall Street or government.. It runs on all
>>> of the micro economies across the country. I'm not talking about the
>>> big metropolises; I am talking about all of the areas across the
>>> country that are similar to the Mississippi pine belt. These micro
>>> economies are very fragile and can be easily upset by as little as a
>>> 25 cent increase in the price of fuels.
>>> A personal observation if you will.. Mid June 2008 when the price of
>>> oil and fuels peaked, there were almost no vehicles on the road, and
>>> nobody in the stores. They had no money to spend..it was all going to
>>> fuel their vehicles so they could get back and forth to work. Within
>>> a week or so after the price of fuels dropped in the fall, there was
>>> traffic on the roads again, and people were in the stores spending
>>> money again, because every dime didn't
>>> have to go in the gas tank.
>>> Fast forward to February 2009.. People had gotten some "breathing
>>> room" in their finances, and were getting caught up so they had more
>>> money to spend..This is what was stimulating the local economy. People
>>> were on the roads and in the stores because they had
>>> disposable income again. Now in the last month, the price of
>>> gasoline has come real close to doubling again because the
>>> speculators have seen the national economy start to rebound, and the
>>> price of oil and fuels have jumped by leaps and bounds again. Plain
>>> old working folks can't afford to take vacations, and are having a
>>> hard time making ends meet again.. All because of the increased price
>>> of fuels.
>>> Now in May 2009, fuel prices are on the rise again, traffic on the
>>> roads is disappearing again, money flow has all but come to a
>>> screeching halt again, and retail businesses are already feeling it
>>> in reduced revenue. This is just the beginning. the trickledown effect is
>>> that there is a reduced demand for goods and services,
>>> retailers and manufacturers will have to lay off even more people, or
>>> close. The costs for transporting products and materials will rise
>>> even more.
>>> If the economy is to truly rebound and recover, the price gouging by
>>> big oil and speculators MUST stop, the refineries must be brought
>>> back up to normal production levels again as well as opening back up
>>> all the platforms and production facilities. As I recall, the
>>> refineries have cut their production capacity down by 80% or more, as
>>> well as shutting down enough platforms and facilities to have to lay
>>> off thousands of workers.. All for the purpose of artificially
>>> increasing the price of oil and fuels.
>>> Here's a news flash. there is no more "travel season" because people
>>> can't afford it. People don't have the disposable income to spend. If
>>> the oil companies want to make more money, they can increase
>>> production, to lower the price of gasoline and fuels to where they
>>> *should* be, and keep it that way. For that matter, instead of
>>> raising the price of fuels in summer, the prices need to drop so
>>> people can afford to take their vacations, and can afford to travel,
>>> and be able to spend more money.
>>> Want to raise gas and fuel prices?? Just remember that to raise
>>> gasoline and fuel prices comes at a great cost , and not just to the
>>> oil companies profits.. It will do more to destroy the entire country
>>> and the national economy, and is counterproductive to making money
>>> flow and "stimulating" the economy than anything else.
>>> --
>>> Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C
>>> Noon-Air@comcast.net
>>> Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons because, to them,
>>> you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

>>
>> Maybe Steve, that's why folks couldn't afford to make their house payments?
>> And, as more and more property was released to the banks, [no payments
>> coming in] - credit dried up for many. Since the available home inventory
>> has increased, the prices of real estate fell. As the home values fell,
>> more and more let their homes go back, and, since there's little confidence
>> in the economy, less and less spending occurred [not knowing if they would
>> receive their next paycheck.] Less and less spending slowed cash flow, less
>> cash flow results in people being laid off and, as for manufacturing, less
>> is needed for inventory - which results in less workers. And, here we
>> are.... :( - no one buying cars, eathing out, buying air conditioners, or
>> working for that matter.

>HVAC Market is doing well here. I guess a lot of us are just too
>conservative to be caught without set aside for a rainy day.

You're retired Don. How the hell would you know?
(Lucky Bastard!) :-)
Bubba

Posted by Don Ocean on June 4, 2009, 11:26 pm

Bubba wrote:

> wrote:
>

>> Zyp wrote:

>>> Steve wrote:
>>>> Please forward this on to anybody and everybody that you think might
>>>> be able to make a difference. BTW.. for those who don't think what I
>>>> wrote is true, check your balance sheets over the last couple of
>>>> years and look for the pattern.
>>>> JSN
>>>> The country doesn't run on Wall Street or government.. It runs on all
>>>> of the micro economies across the country. I'm not talking about the
>>>> big metropolises; I am talking about all of the areas across the
>>>> country that are similar to the Mississippi pine belt. These micro
>>>> economies are very fragile and can be easily upset by as little as a
>>>> 25 cent increase in the price of fuels.
>>>> A personal observation if you will.. Mid June 2008 when the price of
>>>> oil and fuels peaked, there were almost no vehicles on the road, and
>>>> nobody in the stores. They had no money to spend..it was all going to
>>>> fuel their vehicles so they could get back and forth to work. Within
>>>> a week or so after the price of fuels dropped in the fall, there was
>>>> traffic on the roads again, and people were in the stores spending
>>>> money again, because every dime didn't
>>>> have to go in the gas tank.
>>>> Fast forward to February 2009.. People had gotten some "breathing
>>>> room" in their finances, and were getting caught up so they had more
>>>> money to spend..This is what was stimulating the local economy. People
>>>> were on the roads and in the stores because they had
>>>> disposable income again. Now in the last month, the price of
>>>> gasoline has come real close to doubling again because the
>>>> speculators have seen the national economy start to rebound, and the
>>>> price of oil and fuels have jumped by leaps and bounds again. Plain
>>>> old working folks can't afford to take vacations, and are having a
>>>> hard time making ends meet again.. All because of the increased price
>>>> of fuels.
>>>> Now in May 2009, fuel prices are on the rise again, traffic on the
>>>> roads is disappearing again, money flow has all but come to a
>>>> screeching halt again, and retail businesses are already feeling it
>>>> in reduced revenue. This is just the beginning. the trickledown effect is
>>>> that there is a reduced demand for goods and services,
>>>> retailers and manufacturers will have to lay off even more people, or
>>>> close. The costs for transporting products and materials will rise
>>>> even more.
>>>> If the economy is to truly rebound and recover, the price gouging by
>>>> big oil and speculators MUST stop, the refineries must be brought
>>>> back up to normal production levels again as well as opening back up
>>>> all the platforms and production facilities. As I recall, the
>>>> refineries have cut their production capacity down by 80% or more, as
>>>> well as shutting down enough platforms and facilities to have to lay
>>>> off thousands of workers.. All for the purpose of artificially
>>>> increasing the price of oil and fuels.
>>>> Here's a news flash. there is no more "travel season" because people
>>>> can't afford it. People don't have the disposable income to spend. If
>>>> the oil companies want to make more money, they can increase
>>>> production, to lower the price of gasoline and fuels to where they
>>>> *should* be, and keep it that way. For that matter, instead of
>>>> raising the price of fuels in summer, the prices need to drop so
>>>> people can afford to take their vacations, and can afford to travel,
>>>> and be able to spend more money.
>>>> Want to raise gas and fuel prices?? Just remember that to raise
>>>> gasoline and fuel prices comes at a great cost , and not just to the
>>>> oil companies profits.. It will do more to destroy the entire country
>>>> and the national economy, and is counterproductive to making money
>>>> flow and "stimulating" the economy than anything else.
>>>> --
>>>> Steve @ Noon-Air Heating & A/C
>>>> Noon-Air@comcast.net
>>>> Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons because, to them,
>>>> you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
>>> Maybe Steve, that's why folks couldn't afford to make their house payments?
>>> And, as more and more property was released to the banks, [no payments
>>> coming in] - credit dried up for many. Since the available home inventory
>>> has increased, the prices of real estate fell. As the home values fell,
>>> more and more let their homes go back, and, since there's little confidence
>>> in the economy, less and less spending occurred [not knowing if they would
>>> receive their next paycheck.] Less and less spending slowed cash flow, less
>>> cash flow results in people being laid off and, as for manufacturing, less
>>> is needed for inventory - which results in less workers. And, here we
>>> are.... :( - no one buying cars, eathing out, buying air conditioners, or
>>> working for that matter.

>> HVAC Market is doing well here. I guess a lot of us are just too
>> conservative to be caught without set aside for a rainy day.

> You're retired Don. How the hell would you know?
> (Lucky Bastard!) :-)
> Bubba

Its a working retirement. ;-) Golf sucks, Can only do so much hunting
and fishing. Deadbeat relatives won't come anywhere near a jobsite.
Life is good. Cattle business may be taking a crap as the 2 largest
stockyards in the world...Sioux Falls, and Sioux City closed are are for
sale and to be EPA dirt replacement and developed. You lads had best
do Steaks while you still can. I got a flyer from Schafer that Silver
eagles at MS70 grade were for sale at $430 each. I don't think the mint
makes any like that. I buy MS60 for $23.00 each. I did plant a big
Garden this year. lots of potatoes. Freezer is full. Ain't doing any
stupid buying though. I still haven't figured out how Mr Obama's
strategy of spending every dime will make us prosperous. Friend of mine
sells horses and is doing real well. No GM warranty! ;-p Folks up here
seem to be handling their mortgages OK and real estate is holding value.
Things have gotten so tough that the Homeless that migrates south every
winter refuse to leave. Even offering them a job doesn't work.

Page 2 of 2 << first < 1 2

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OT fuel prices and the economy - Page 2