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R-22 vs. R410a (Puron) Jay-n-123 05-16-2007
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Posted by Noon-Air on May 16, 2007, 3:40 pm

>> Gotta love it when the lowest bidder gets the job
> So, by that, do you mean it _should_ be done, and just isn't to save
> time/sweat?

yup... if the lineset is in the slab, a PVC chase is required.

>>> I have seen a lot of water in the couple of grade-level or below-grade
>>> sets I've pulled out of conduit, and suppose that might be one objection
>>> to using it. (Ken _likes_ it that it's my hands and not his in that
>>> stagnant goop...)
>> There is a reason that your supposed to seal both ends of the chase
> The two I pulled _were_ "sealed" somewhat -- one only with foam (spray-on)
> and one with foam and capped with mortar at the outside end; and of
> course, the mortar was cracked. On both, the inside end was sealed with
> foam. I presume the water was from condensation and not from leakage.
> Seems like only a good hermetic seal would prevent the pipe from breathing
> under temperature changes.

I use the expanding foam on both ends.... it seems to work well enough. The
only things I run through the lineset chase are the lineset and the control
wires. No I don't tie the lineset and wires together or tape them.....I have
had to replace too many wires that were taped or tied. I don't staple them
inside of the walls either.

> What should be used? Is there a fitting designed to the purpose?

Just use the expanding foam.....its a good idea to make sure that the inside
of the chase is clean and dry before you run the copper.

>>> Are there other reasons - besides the basic cost of materials and
>>> labor - that make conduit/chase installation of linesets undesirable?

nope, and the only additional cost is $10 in 4 inch drain pipe

> You may have answered that there aren't... but I didn't read that clearly.


> LLoyd
>



Posted by Geoman on May 16, 2007, 5:39 pm

>>> Gotta love it when the lowest bidder gets the job
>> So, by that, do you mean it _should_ be done, and just isn't to save
>> time/sweat?
> yup... if the lineset is in the slab, a PVC chase is required.
>>>> I have seen a lot of water in the couple of grade-level or below-grade
>>>> sets I've pulled out of conduit, and suppose that might be one
>>>> objection to using it. (Ken _likes_ it that it's my hands and not his
>>>> in that stagnant goop...)
>>> There is a reason that your supposed to seal both ends of the chase
>> The two I pulled _were_ "sealed" somewhat -- one only with foam
>> (spray-on) and one with foam and capped with mortar at the outside end;
>> and of course, the mortar was cracked. On both, the inside end was
>> sealed with foam. I presume the water was from condensation and not from
>> leakage. Seems like only a good hermetic seal would prevent the pipe from
>> breathing under temperature changes.
> I use the expanding foam on both ends.... it seems to work well enough.
> The only things I run through the lineset chase are the lineset and the
> control wires. No I don't tie the lineset and wires together or tape
> them.....I have had to replace too many wires that were taped or tied. I
> don't staple them inside of the walls either.
>> What should be used? Is there a fitting designed to the purpose?
> Just use the expanding foam.....its a good idea to make sure that the
> inside of the chase is clean and dry before you run the copper.
>>>> Are there other reasons - besides the basic cost of materials and
>>>> labor - that make conduit/chase installation of linesets undesirable?
> nope, and the only additional cost is $10 in 4 inch drain pipe
>> You may have answered that there aren't... but I didn't read that
>> clearly.
>> LLoyd


I was on a job once and saw perforated pipe used. The contractor told me
that there was a perimeter drain and the refrigerant lines were above the
tile, so instead of sealing off the ends with foam he stuffed them. His idea
is that any condensation leaks would be leached.
Interesting way he thinks




Posted by Noon-Air on May 16, 2007, 6:20 pm

>>>> Gotta love it when the lowest bidder gets the job
>>> So, by that, do you mean it _should_ be done, and just isn't to save
>>> time/sweat?
>> yup... if the lineset is in the slab, a PVC chase is required.
>>>>> I have seen a lot of water in the couple of grade-level or below-grade
>>>>> sets I've pulled out of conduit, and suppose that might be one
>>>>> objection to using it. (Ken _likes_ it that it's my hands and not his
>>>>> in that stagnant goop...)
>>>> There is a reason that your supposed to seal both ends of the chase
>>> The two I pulled _were_ "sealed" somewhat -- one only with foam
>>> (spray-on) and one with foam and capped with mortar at the outside end;
>>> and of course, the mortar was cracked. On both, the inside end was
>>> sealed with foam. I presume the water was from condensation and not
>>> from leakage. Seems like only a good hermetic seal would prevent the
>>> pipe from breathing under temperature changes.
>> I use the expanding foam on both ends.... it seems to work well enough.
>> The only things I run through the lineset chase are the lineset and the
>> control wires. No I don't tie the lineset and wires together or tape
>> them.....I have had to replace too many wires that were taped or tied. I
>> don't staple them inside of the walls either.
>>> What should be used? Is there a fitting designed to the purpose?
>> Just use the expanding foam.....its a good idea to make sure that the
>> inside of the chase is clean and dry before you run the copper.
>>>>> Are there other reasons - besides the basic cost of materials and
>>>>> labor - that make conduit/chase installation of linesets undesirable?
>> nope, and the only additional cost is $10 in 4 inch drain pipe
>>> You may have answered that there aren't... but I didn't read that
>>> clearly.
>>> LLoyd
> I was on a job once and saw perforated pipe used. The contractor told me
> that there was a perimeter drain and the refrigerant lines were above the
> tile, so instead of sealing off the ends with foam he stuffed them. His
> idea is that any condensation leaks would be leached.
> Interesting way he thinks

ummmmm...... yeah......ok........



Posted by New Directions In Building Ser on May 16, 2007, 8:32 pm

>>> Gotta love it when the lowest bidder gets the job
>> So, by that, do you mean it _should_ be done, and just isn't to save
>> time/sweat?
> yup... if the lineset is in the slab, a PVC chase is required.
>>>> I have seen a lot of water in the couple of grade-level or below-grade
>>>> sets I've pulled out of conduit, and suppose that might be one
>>>> objection to using it. (Ken _likes_ it that it's my hands and not his
>>>> in that stagnant goop...)
>>> There is a reason that your supposed to seal both ends of the chase
>> The two I pulled _were_ "sealed" somewhat -- one only with foam
>> (spray-on) and one with foam and capped with mortar at the outside end;
>> and of course, the mortar was cracked. On both, the inside end was
>> sealed with foam. I presume the water was from condensation and not from
>> leakage. Seems like only a good hermetic seal would prevent the pipe from
>> breathing under temperature changes.
> I use the expanding foam on both ends.... it seems to work well enough.
> The only things I run through the lineset chase are the lineset and the
> control wires. No I don't tie the lineset and wires together or tape
> them.....I have had to replace too many wires that were taped or tied. I
> don't staple them inside of the walls either.

Noon-Air
That might be ok where you are but if your talking about apartments or
commercial where some form of fire separation/segregation is required.
Expanding polyurethene sealants are forbidden in these instances so you
might like to/should reconsider and used an appropriate intumescent (fire
rated) mastic sealant.

As to the practice of pouring concrete over the linesets - sounds like a
whole lot of liability exposure to me...
>> What should be used? Is there a fitting designed to the purpose?
> Just use the expanding foam.....its a good idea to make sure that the
> inside of the chase is clean and dry before you run the copper.
>>>> Are there other reasons - besides the basic cost of materials and
>>>> labor - that make conduit/chase installation of linesets undesirable?
> nope, and the only additional cost is $10 in 4 inch drain pipe
>> You may have answered that there aren't... but I didn't read that
>> clearly.
>> LLoyd
>



Posted by Noon-Air on May 16, 2007, 10:45 pm

>>>> Gotta love it when the lowest bidder gets the job
>>> So, by that, do you mean it _should_ be done, and just isn't to save
>>> time/sweat?
>> yup... if the lineset is in the slab, a PVC chase is required.
>>>>> I have seen a lot of water in the couple of grade-level or below-grade
>>>>> sets I've pulled out of conduit, and suppose that might be one
>>>>> objection to using it. (Ken _likes_ it that it's my hands and not his
>>>>> in that stagnant goop...)
>>>> There is a reason that your supposed to seal both ends of the chase
>>> The two I pulled _were_ "sealed" somewhat -- one only with foam
>>> (spray-on) and one with foam and capped with mortar at the outside end;
>>> and of course, the mortar was cracked. On both, the inside end was
>>> sealed with foam. I presume the water was from condensation and not
>>> from leakage. Seems like only a good hermetic seal would prevent the
>>> pipe from breathing under temperature changes.
>> I use the expanding foam on both ends.... it seems to work well enough.
>> The only things I run through the lineset chase are the lineset and the
>> control wires. No I don't tie the lineset and wires together or tape
>> them.....I have had to replace too many wires that were taped or tied. I
>> don't staple them inside of the walls either.
> Noon-Air
> That might be ok where you are but if your talking about apartments or
> commercial where some form of fire separation/segregation is required.
> Expanding polyurethene sealants are forbidden in these instances so you
> might like to/should reconsider and used an appropriate intumescent (fire
> rated) mastic sealant.

I only use the expanding foam where the lineset is inside of a PVC chase
inside of the slab. 99% of what I do is single family residential. Apartment
owners and commerical building owners around here only want the lowest
bidder.

> As to the practice of pouring concrete over the linesets - sounds like a
> whole lot of liability exposure to me...

The linesets are encased in a PVC pipe chase inside of the slab so there is
no direct contact between copper and concrete. The PVC pipe chase also makes
it a lot easier to change the lineset when needed.




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