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Re: Bi-Flow Clean-up Filter Driers in Inverter Splits Old & Grumpy 03-01-2008
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Posted by on March 2, 2008, 6:39 pm

>.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>>
>>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>>> One time, the parts house suggested a vapor line filter. it was
>>>> rather short, and a very wide cross section. Looked like the filter
>>>> had swollowed a pizza pie.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike the liquid line filters which look like a snake which has
>>>> swollowed a wooden barrel.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christopher A. Young
>>>> Learn more about Jesus
>>>> www.lds.org
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have no idea what you talking about but if you check with
>>>> drier OEMs you find out that filters are made for liquid filtering
>>>> and not for gas, in gas line are ineficient and that is why are
>>>> never install in gas lines, however you can install them any
>>>> place you wish, filters are also made for suction lines oil return
>>>> lines but not for gas lines in refrigeration systems.
>>>
>>> Generally, after a compressor replacement, it is recommend that a
>>> suction line filter drier be installed. If it's a burn out, a high
>>> in carbon filter drier is used to help remove acidic particulate.
>>>
>>> For the Old & Grumpy, the suction line contains vapor. It is highly
>>> NOT recommended to put any desiccant drier in the hot gas discharge
>>> line. Only in the liquid or suction lines.
>>
>> Not true. In fact, many units come stock with exactly that.
>> And no, I don't mean the mufflers.
>>
>> Sporlan and Alco both approve them for discharge use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>>
>> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
>> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
>> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
>> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
>
>Really Paul;
>
>I've seen several jobs where Sporlan driers were installed incorrectly in
>the hot gas discharge [because the person perported to 'know'] and, the
>result was a dissintigration of the drier's contents.

        Andy specifically assured me that would not occur, and that
they are routinely used in discharge lines at the factory.

> Funny how while the
>unit was running, you could hear the material racing around the condenser.

        Ummm.... no. Why ? Because the screens would trap any
desiccant that DID break loose ( if any ). And it would be a finely
divided granular substance at that point.

It was something else you heard moving around - something
substantial enough to be heard - like valve pieces, for instance :-)

>
>Show me where Parker / Sporlan manufacturers' a drier for use in the hot gas
>discharge line of a refrigeration system.
>
>http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.c919d327f6ff33b51e9e710c237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=14a1c25ee7d83110VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default

        Andy Schoen told me. It applies to ALL their driers, there is
nothing special about it. Good enough ? :-)

*************************************
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Paul, thanks for the heads-up. York-Evcon has been using a Sporlan
drier in their discharge lines for years. Andy
*************************************

What Sporlan DOES say, is this - a totally different point than yours
( as I took you to imply breakup. If you were referring to the
moisture issue, then you are correct as per Sporlan, but I am correct
in that many major manufacurers do it anyway, and Sporlan knows and
sys it's OK. )

From Sporlan Publication 40-10

Catch-All Filter-Driers are not recommended for use in the
discharge line. The water capacity in this location would be greatly
reduced due to the high operating temperature."


PS - my Rheem heat pump was the same way, too.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

PexSupply Save 50 468x60
Posted by Zyp on March 2, 2008, 6:56 pm
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>> .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>>>> One time, the parts house suggested a vapor line filter. it was
>>>>> rather short, and a very wide cross section. Looked like the
>>>>> filter had swollowed a pizza pie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike the liquid line filters which look like a snake which has
>>>>> swollowed a wooden barrel.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christopher A. Young
>>>>> Learn more about Jesus
>>>>> www.lds.org
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have no idea what you talking about but if you check with
>>>>> drier OEMs you find out that filters are made for liquid filtering
>>>>> and not for gas, in gas line are ineficient and that is why are
>>>>> never install in gas lines, however you can install them any
>>>>> place you wish, filters are also made for suction lines oil return
>>>>> lines but not for gas lines in refrigeration systems.
>>>>
>>>> Generally, after a compressor replacement, it is recommend that a
>>>> suction line filter drier be installed. If it's a burn out, a high
>>>> in carbon filter drier is used to help remove acidic particulate.
>>>>
>>>> For the Old & Grumpy, the suction line contains vapor. It is
>>>> highly NOT recommended to put any desiccant drier in the hot gas
>>>> discharge line. Only in the liquid or suction lines.
>>>
>>> Not true. In fact, many units come stock with exactly that.
>>> And no, I don't mean the mufflers.
>>>
>>> Sporlan and Alco both approve them for discharge use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>>> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>>>
>>> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>>> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
>>> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
>>> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
>>> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
>>
>> Really Paul;
>>
>> I've seen several jobs where Sporlan driers were installed
>> incorrectly in the hot gas discharge [because the person perported
>> to 'know'] and, the result was a dissintigration of the drier's
>> contents.
>
> Andy specifically assured me that would not occur, and that
> they are routinely used in discharge lines at the factory.
>
>> Funny how while the
>> unit was running, you could hear the material racing around the
>> condenser.
>
> Ummm.... no. Why ? Because the screens would trap any
> desiccant that DID break loose ( if any ). And it would be a finely
> divided granular substance at that point.
>
> It was something else you heard moving around - something
> substantial enough to be heard - like valve pieces, for instance :-)
>
>>
>> Show me where Parker / Sporlan manufacturers' a drier for use in the
>> hot gas discharge line of a refrigeration system.
>>
>>
http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.c919d327f6ff33b51e9e710c237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=14a1c25ee7d83110VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default
>
> Andy Schoen told me. It applies to ALL their driers, there is
> nothing special about it. Good enough ? :-)
>
> *************************************
> Subject: RE: A post you should see
> MIME-version: 1.0
> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
> Delivered-to: pjm@pobox.com
> Thread-topic: A post you should see
> Thread-index: AcQ1B4TgqjWIprXhRwq5MJIwfHddVABtKEQw
> X-MS-Has-Attach:
> X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine
> Original-recipient: rfc822;pmilligan@nc.rr.com
>
> Paul, thanks for the heads-up. York-Evcon has been using a Sporlan
> drier in their discharge lines for years. Andy
> *************************************
>
> What Sporlan DOES say, is this - a totally different point than yours
> ( as I took you to imply breakup. If you were referring to the
> moisture issue, then you are correct as per Sporlan, but I am correct
> in that many major manufacurers do it anyway, and Sporlan knows and
> sys it's OK. )
>
> From Sporlan Publication 40-10
>
> Catch-All Filter-Driers are not recommended for use in the
> discharge line. The water capacity in this location would be greatly
> reduced due to the high operating temperature."
>
>
> PS - my Rheem heat pump was the same way, too.
>
>
> --
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

No, upon removal the desiccant was in pieces. Some got through the screen.
[Not that fine of a screen mind you either.]

--
Zyp



Posted by on March 2, 2008, 7:11 pm

>
>No, upon removal the desiccant was in pieces. Some got through the screen.
>[Not that fine of a screen mind you either.]

        I've also seen pieces of valve ( LOTS of pieces ! ) fall out
of the DRIER into my hand while changing a compressor ( 5 Ton Techumsa
, if I recall ). Suprised this shit out of me ! :-)


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Posted by on March 2, 2008, 6:43 pm

>.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>>
>>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>>> One time, the parts house suggested a vapor line filter. it was
>>>> rather short, and a very wide cross section. Looked like the filter
>>>> had swollowed a pizza pie.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike the liquid line filters which look like a snake which has
>>>> swollowed a wooden barrel.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Christopher A. Young
>>>> Learn more about Jesus
>>>> www.lds.org
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have no idea what you talking about but if you check with
>>>> drier OEMs you find out that filters are made for liquid filtering
>>>> and not for gas, in gas line are ineficient and that is why are
>>>> never install in gas lines, however you can install them any
>>>> place you wish, filters are also made for suction lines oil return
>>>> lines but not for gas lines in refrigeration systems.
>>>
>>> Generally, after a compressor replacement, it is recommend that a
>>> suction line filter drier be installed. If it's a burn out, a high
>>> in carbon filter drier is used to help remove acidic particulate.
>>>
>>> For the Old & Grumpy, the suction line contains vapor. It is highly
>>> NOT recommended to put any desiccant drier in the hot gas discharge
>>> line. Only in the liquid or suction lines.
>>
>> Not true. In fact, many units come stock with exactly that.
>> And no, I don't mean the mufflers.
>>
>> Sporlan and Alco both approve them for discharge use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>>
>> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
>> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
>> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
>> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
>
>Really Paul;
>
>I've seen several jobs where Sporlan driers were installed incorrectly in
>the hot gas discharge [because the person perported to 'know'] and, the
>result was a dissintigration of the drier's contents. Funny how while the
>unit was running, you could hear the material racing around the condenser.
>
>Show me where Parker / Sporlan manufacturers' a drier for use in the hot gas
>discharge line of a refrigeration system.
>
>http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.c919d327f6ff33b51e9e710c237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=14a1c25ee7d83110VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default

        Here's the Prof himself, in public post ( more info there - go
read it )

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1472.html

"One can use a filter-drier, provided it is properly sized, in the
discharge line. Two caveats here: (1) the filter-drier should be a
core type, e.g., Sporlan Catch-All. It should not be a desiccant bead
type. Compressor pulsations could tear apart these driers; (2) On
light commercial or larger equipment, say greater than 5 tons, there
are economic, sociopolitical, and some common sense engineering
reasons not to do this :)

You may be interested to know that York has applied Catch-All
filter-driers to some of its residential heat pump systems in the
common discharge line."


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Posted by Zyp on March 2, 2008, 7:19 pm
.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>
>> .p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>>>> One time, the parts house suggested a vapor line filter. it was
>>>>> rather short, and a very wide cross section. Looked like the
>>>>> filter had swollowed a pizza pie.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike the liquid line filters which look like a snake which has
>>>>> swollowed a wooden barrel.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christopher A. Young
>>>>> Learn more about Jesus
>>>>> www.lds.org
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have no idea what you talking about but if you check with
>>>>> drier OEMs you find out that filters are made for liquid filtering
>>>>> and not for gas, in gas line are ineficient and that is why are
>>>>> never install in gas lines, however you can install them any
>>>>> place you wish, filters are also made for suction lines oil return
>>>>> lines but not for gas lines in refrigeration systems.
>>>>
>>>> Generally, after a compressor replacement, it is recommend that a
>>>> suction line filter drier be installed. If it's a burn out, a high
>>>> in carbon filter drier is used to help remove acidic particulate.
>>>>
>>>> For the Old & Grumpy, the suction line contains vapor. It is
>>>> highly NOT recommended to put any desiccant drier in the hot gas
>>>> discharge line. Only in the liquid or suction lines.
>>>
>>> Not true. In fact, many units come stock with exactly that.
>>> And no, I don't mean the mufflers.
>>>
>>> Sporlan and Alco both approve them for discharge use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
>>> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>>>
>>> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
>>> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
>>> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
>>> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
>>> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
>>
>> Really Paul;
>>
>> I've seen several jobs where Sporlan driers were installed
>> incorrectly in the hot gas discharge [because the person perported
>> to 'know'] and, the result was a dissintigration of the drier's
>> contents. Funny how while the unit was running, you could hear the
>> material racing around the condenser.
>>
>> Show me where Parker / Sporlan manufacturers' a drier for use in the
>> hot gas discharge line of a refrigeration system.
>>
>>
http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.c919d327f6ff33b51e9e710c237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=14a1c25ee7d83110VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default
>
> Here's the Prof himself, in public post ( more info there - go
> read it )
>
> http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1472.html
>
> "One can use a filter-drier, provided it is properly sized, in the
> discharge line. Two caveats here: (1) the filter-drier should be a
> core type, e.g., Sporlan Catch-All. It should not be a desiccant bead
> type. Compressor pulsations could tear apart these driers; (2) On
> light commercial or larger equipment, say greater than 5 tons, there
> are economic, sociopolitical, and some common sense engineering
> reasons not to do this :)
>
> You may be interested to know that York has applied Catch-All
> filter-driers to some of its residential heat pump systems in the
> common discharge line."
>
>
> --
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Well finding this discussion on a talk - board does not make a good
recommendation. The manufacturer still does not recommend it in their
literature, and you haven't shown me where it says you can. You've only
shown me a discussion on a newsgroup discussion between two. If you would
have read your own posting here, it came with cautions. And it is dangerous
to say the least to tell would be technicians they can use a LIQUID LINE
FILTER DRIER in the hot gas discharge.

Albeit your discussion eludes to using a suction gas filter drier in the hot
gas discharge, which the manufacturer isn't going to recommend either. It's
not designed for that purpose.


--
Zyp



Page 2 of 6       < 1 2 3 > last >>
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