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Posted by Don Ocean on May 12, 2009, 7:21 pm
ATP* wrote:
>>> There is no way any gas stove or light bulb can give
>>> more than 100 percent, but the heat pumps and the high school
>>> arrangement do.
>> If so, then they form a complete solution to all of our energy needs.
>> Burn gasoline, and get back more energy than was containeed in the
>> gasoline. Rinse, Repeat. Over and over, until we have lots of surplus
>> energy and prices fall to the vanishing point.
> Heat pumps do move heat, effectively putting more BTU's in a space than
> contained in the fuel used to power the heat pump, under the right
> conditions. But that energy can't be efficiently stored or converted, only
> used to heat a space (or cool going the other way). The laws of
> thermodynamics are not violated, unless somebody can use the heat that was
> moved to drive a bigger engine than the heat pump originally employed.
> That's not going to happen.
Do keep in mind that the energy used to move the heat from one side to
another does not in itself provide heat(very little) Thus the efficiency
factor is really a farce. The heat already exists from other none paid
sources and is merely moved by the energy source you are paying the
meter for.
>
> It's not correct to say heat pumps are more than 100% efficient, the BTU's
> moved/BTU's consumed is described in terms of a coefficient of performance,
> which can be considerably more than 1. Unfortunately, the cost of the fuel
> to run the heat pump (usually electricity) is often a higher multiple
> compared to (for example) natural gas than the coefficient of performance,
> so the advantage is lost.
One of the most efficient Air conditioners was fueled by natural gas and
utilized an absorption unit. Very expensive to repair. Noe there are
ways of converting that system for heat also.
>
>
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>> more than 100 percent, but the heat pumps and the high school
>> arrangement do.