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Posted by Bob_Loblaw on February 19, 2007, 10:42 pm
DANgER (danger@heat.com) wrote
show/hide quoted text
> I wasn't saying this is the problem. I said it sounds wrong. He
> mentioned drain tubing on the 4" pipe...Does that sound like an inlet
> pipe moron?
Ever seen a York hi efficiency???
You are in the trade, right???
--
Respectfully, Bob
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Posted by Stormin Mormon on February 19, 2007, 11:00 pm
I guess you don't notice two isolated thoughts.
1) Four inch pipe is over size for an eight foot run
2) Snow clogged pipes can shut down a 90 percenter.
Points 1 and 2 are only somewhat interrelated.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
show/hide quoted text
: > Four inch pipe for a 8 foot run sounds a bit huge. I've seen
two
show/hide quoted text
: > inch, and three if the run of pipe is very long. Might want
: > put an elbow on the end of the inlet PVC pipe. Angling down.
: > pointing down wind. Less likely to get packed with snow. The
: > outlet pipe is seldom a problem.
: >
: > --
: >
: > Christopher A. Young
: Chris, are you and Danger the same person ? I just posted how
stupid that
: reasoning is.......
: You can have a 40 foot wide intake air and it wouldn't cause
this!! Heck,
: lets put a 300 foot wide intake on, what difference does it
make. HOWEVER,
: reducing the size could and eventually WILL cause a shut down.
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Posted by bcooper on February 20, 2007, 9:06 am
On Feb 19, 11:00 pm, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61-
show/hide quoted text
&spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I guess you don't notice two isolated thoughts.
> 1) Four inch pipe is over size for an eight foot run
> 2) Snow clogged pipes can shut down a 90 percenter.
> Points 1 and 2 are only somewhat interrelated.
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> You can't shout down a troll.
> You have to starve them.
> .
> :
> : > Four inch pipe for a 8 foot run sounds a bit huge. I've seen
> two
> : > inch, and three if the run of pipe is very long. Might want
> to
> : > put an elbow on the end of the inlet PVC pipe. Angling down.
> Or
> : > pointing down wind. Less likely to get packed with snow. The
> : > outlet pipe is seldom a problem.
> : > --
> : > Christopher A. Young
> :
> : Chris, are you and Danger the same person ? I just posted how
> stupid that
> : reasoning is.......
> :
> : You can have a 40 foot wide intake air and it wouldn't cause
> this!! Heck,
> : lets put a 300 foot wide intake on, what difference does it
> make. HOWEVER,
> : reducing the size could and eventually WILL cause a shut down.
> :
> :
> :
> :
It is nice to see that some of the personnel here are actually trying
to help with the problem and not letting their egos or petty
infighting get in their way.
To summarise what I have heard so far:
1. Inlet pipe should preferably be a constant diameter and in this
case for an 8 foot run a 2 1/2" pipe should suffice and putting a 90
degree elbow to have the opening angled down may help.
2. Possibly a pressure switch problem - switch has been checked and I
am told it is fine.
3. Possible grounding problem - furnace is properly grounded and all
connections are good.
4. Just for clarification there is a drain tube on the inlet and there
is a water filled trap in the hose. I assume this hose it to get rid
of any unwanted moisture before it gets into the furnace.
I was asked if I was using natural gas or propane and the answer is
propane. It was suggested that this may be part of the problem and on
reflection it seems that the furnace has only been shutting down on
the coldest nights. Would -20 degrees F have that much of an effect on
the flow of propane?
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Posted by Stormin Mormon on February 20, 2007, 9:45 am
If memory serves, the boiling point of propane is -44.
http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html
So, it is very possible that the low temperatures are preventing
your furnace from operating. Certainly, they are lowering the
pressure of the propane in the tank. Now, the question is how to
keep the tank warmer.
--
Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
: It is nice to see that some of the personnel here are actually
trying
: to help with the problem and not letting their egos or petty
: infighting get in their way.
: To summarise what I have heard so far:
: 1. Inlet pipe should preferably be a constant diameter and in
this
: case for an 8 foot run a 2 1/2" pipe should suffice and putting
a 90
: degree elbow to have the opening angled down may help.
: 2. Possibly a pressure switch problem - switch has been checked
and I
: am told it is fine.
: 3. Possible grounding problem - furnace is properly grounded
and all
: connections are good.
: 4. Just for clarification there is a drain tube on the inlet
and there
: is a water filled trap in the hose. I assume this hose it to
get rid
: of any unwanted moisture before it gets into the furnace.
: I was asked if I was using natural gas or propane and the
answer is
: propane. It was suggested that this may be part of the problem
and on
: reflection it seems that the furnace has only been shutting
down on
: the coldest nights. Would -20 degrees F have that much of an
effect on
: the flow of propane?
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Posted by Geoman on February 20, 2007, 9:20 am
show/hide quoted text
>I guess you don't notice two isolated thoughts.
> 1) Four inch pipe is over size for an eight foot run
> 2) Snow clogged pipes can shut down a 90 percenter.
> Points 1 and 2 are only somewhat interrelated.
Point #!, I don't care if the pipe is 300 ft wide, you don't even really
have to connect the pipe up if your combustion air is ample and correctly
sized to the room On discharge air their are maximums, unless you are smart
enough to design it so 4" will work (I'm speaking of Trane Equipment) I
have had to redo some competators installs and designed a system that the
factory itself approaved using 6" pipe because we had to exceed the length
of the run past the factory listed design criteria.
Point #2. It was REDUCED going outside to 2 1-2 " So the snow according to
you would have a more difficult time entering the pipe.
Point #3 He stated that there was a trap to collect the water ON THE SUPPLY
pipe, if it worked or not; I can't see it from here.
Point #4 The larger IINTAKE pipe would not be te problem with a pressure
switch locking out
Point #5 The poster was asked what size the discharge pipe was, we still
don't know. This should give you a little direction as to what is happening
here, espeicially if it too was reduced.
Point #6 The homeowner stated:I cleaned the Remote Sensor
and the spark ignition and sensor and it seemed to work for about 4
days before it shut down again." So, stormy, I guess its magic I presume
that cleaning the sensor caused all your snow and clogged pipes to
disappear? I also guess that its magic that it worked for four days after
doing so and then got worse after the sensors coating, being rubbed off by
the homeowner couldn't sense flame any longer?
Point #7 NOT knowing where he lives I still doubt that snow on the INTAKE
pipe causing a plug is very limited seeing that it was 2" going outside
Point#8 I have come accross discharge pipes plugging up with ice on the
opening when its -20 for extended days, but I doubt this happened here,
typical when running through a cold area of over 4 feet such as an attic
run, BTW, stormy, this is critical for sizing pipes, you need to insulate
the vent that runs through unconditioned spaces. But this sounds like its in
the conditioned space
Point 9 Could be restriction in pipe, bird, 'CAT" ( sorry Paul) rat,
LEAVES.
Point 10 If the trap has water in it, AND its installed correctly AND if
there was so much snow in such a short run he would have water indicated in
the burner section
Point 11, I'm not sure if Rheem has a filter screen on their intake chamber,
this is a potential
Point 12, the service man checked inlet and outlet pressures, never was told
ON WHAT. I'm assuming the gas pressures, which is nice but more important
would be the vent and make up air pressures.
So, getting back to your original statement, NO, the intake size doesn't
mean anything , if its 2 1/2 or 2 inch going outside its installed wrong,
period, but this would not increase the snow problem any more than running
2" all the way.
Its smart to have the vent installed correctly, and according to
manufactures specs unless the manufacturer signs off as they did on the
three furnaces I worked on years back
Second, checking the pressure being seen on all pressure switch's is
important
Third, if theres moisture in the trap, then theres probably mositure in that
pressure switch and its rusted up, I would put my chips on this
Fourth, sensors/ignitors are cheap, measure the voltage, position of sensor
since the homeowner may have worked on it in the past and bent it out of the
flame pattern.
Conclusion, "Its bad gas, call the gas company!"
show/hide quoted text
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> You can't shout down a troll.
> You have to starve them.
> .
> :
> : > Four inch pipe for a 8 foot run sounds a bit huge. I've seen
> two
> : > inch, and three if the run of pipe is very long. Might want
> to
> : > put an elbow on the end of the inlet PVC pipe. Angling down.
> Or
> : > pointing down wind. Less likely to get packed with snow. The
> : > outlet pipe is seldom a problem.
> : > --
> : > Christopher A. Young
> :
> : Chris, are you and Danger the same person ? I just posted how
> stupid that
> : reasoning is.......
> :
> : You can have a 40 foot wide intake air and it wouldn't cause
> this!! Heck,
> : lets put a 300 foot wide intake on, what difference does it
> make. HOWEVER,
> : reducing the size could and eventually WILL cause a shut down.
> :
> :
> :
> :
>
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> mentioned drain tubing on the 4" pipe...Does that sound like an inlet
> pipe moron?