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TX valve with Amana/Goodman heat pump and ARI ratings

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TX valve with Amana/Goodman heat pump and ARI ratings spearingusenet 08-19-2006
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Posted by on August 19, 2006, 3:59 am
I am going to be ripping out my oil furnace and installing a heat pump
and am about to pull the trigger on an Amana (Goodman) 3.5 ton and
variable speed AHU. From what I can tell, they come with a flowrater
instead of a TX valve. Three items I hope someone can help with:

1. Can someone confirm that the "flowrater" is not a TX valve and is
just an orifice arrangement in place of the TX valve? What do they do?

2. A majority of the Amana ARI ratings say " + TXV " in the AHU
column. I assume this means that a TX valve was installed in the AHU
for the test. Why would they do this when the standard unit comes with
a "flowrater"? Will it improve both heating and cooling performance?

3. If I go with a unit with a factory flowrater, should I insist that
they install a TX? I would use the unit 93% of the time for heat.
What does the TX improve and how? Any downsides to a TX (moving parts,
longevity, etc.)?

Thanks for any help!

S


Posted by Bubba on August 19, 2006, 8:07 am
On 19 Aug 2006 00:59:45 -0700, spearingusenet@gmail.com wrote:

>I am going to be ripping out my oil furnace and installing a heat pump
>and am about to pull the trigger on an Amana (Goodman) 3.5 ton and
>variable speed AHU. From what I can tell, they come with a flowrater
>instead of a TX valve. Three items I hope someone can help with:
>
>1. Can someone confirm that the "flowrater" is not a TX valve and is
>just an orifice arrangement in place of the TX valve? What do they do?

Yes.
It meters refrigerant
>
>2. A majority of the Amana ARI ratings say " + TXV " in the AHU
>column. I assume this means that a TX valve was installed in the AHU
>for the test. Why would they do this when the standard unit comes with
>a "flowrater"? Will it improve both heating and cooling performance?

They just get bored so they test it the opposite way the rating says
>
>3. If I go with a unit with a factory flowrater, should I insist that
>they install a TX? I would use the unit 93% of the time for heat.
>What does the TX improve and how? Any downsides to a TX (moving parts,
>longevity, etc.)?
>
>Thanks for any help!
>
>S

Yes! Insist that they use a flow rater AND a TXV. This is the only way
to get peak efficiency and keep your compressor running for a
lifetime.
Bubba

Posted by Stormin Mormon on August 19, 2006, 8:18 am
1. Can someone confirm that the "flowrater" is not a TX valve and is
just an orifice arrangement in place of the TX valve? What do they
do?
CY: I'll confirm that. Orifice is a tiny hole which allows the freon
to expand. A TXV is an adjustable tiny hole. It adjusts based on the
temperature of the suction line.

2. A majority of the Amana ARI ratings say " + TXV " in the AHU
column. I assume this means that a TX valve was installed in the AHU
for the test.
CY: That's possible. I didn't read the article.

Why would they do this when the standard unit comes with
a "flowrater"?
CY: Cause it's more efficient.

Will it improve both heating and cooling performance?
CY: Only cooling. Improves cooling performance.

3. If I go with a unit with a factory flowrater, should I insist that
they install a TX? I would use the unit 93% of the time for heat.
CY: For occasional use, might not be worth it.

What does the TX improve and how?
CY: Varies the flow of freon through the evaporator coil. Based on the
demands of the system.

Any downsides to a TX (moving parts,
longevity, etc.)?
CY: They tend to be dependable. They clog fairly easy, so the
installer should put in a filter drier right before the TXV.

Thanks for any help!
CY: Glad to.

S



Posted by Murdentech on August 19, 2006, 9:28 am

>I am going to be ripping out my oil furnace and installing a heat pump
> and am about to pull the trigger on an Amana (Goodman) 3.5 ton and
> variable speed AHU. From what I can tell, they come with a flowrater
> instead of a TX valve. Three items I hope someone can help with:
>
> 1. Can someone confirm that the "flowrater" is not a TX valve and is
> just an orifice arrangement in place of the TX valve? What do they do?
>
Flowrater is a standard piston, or fixed orifice. TXV is theral expansion
valve. It adjusts the refrigerant flow based on system load and increases
efficiency at less than maximum load.

> 2. A majority of the Amana ARI ratings say " + TXV " in the AHU
> column. I assume this means that a TX valve was installed in the AHU
> for the test. Why would they do this when the standard unit comes with
> a "flowrater"? Will it improve both heating and cooling performance?
>
The TXV at the indoor unit will improve latent heat (moisture) removal in
the cooling mode. The indoor metering device has no function in heating
mode. The metering device for heating mode is located in the outdoor section
of the heat pump. Notice that heating performance is not rated in SEER,
rather it is rated in COP (Coefficient of performance). The outdoor metering
device is installed at the factory (TXV or fixed) and is not field
changeable.

> 3. If I go with a unit with a factory flowrater, should I insist that
> they install a TX? I would use the unit 93% of the time for heat.
> What does the TX improve and how? Any downsides to a TX (moving parts,
> longevity, etc.)?
>
A TXV can improve cooling performance. Some ARI rating require the TXV to
meet the standard. There is a downside to a TXV. It is more difficult to
adjust the charge. The TXV can become stuck and cause performance issues.
Goodman has had problems with their TXVs in some applications. The TXV costs
more to install.



Posted by Bubba on August 19, 2006, 3:57 pm
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:28:25 -0400, "Murdentech" <j. murden@ insight
bb.com> wrote:

>
>>I am going to be ripping out my oil furnace and installing a heat pump
>> and am about to pull the trigger on an Amana (Goodman) 3.5 ton and
>> variable speed AHU. From what I can tell, they come with a flowrater
>> instead of a TX valve. Three items I hope someone can help with:
>>
>> 1. Can someone confirm that the "flowrater" is not a TX valve and is
>> just an orifice arrangement in place of the TX valve? What do they do?
>>
>Flowrater is a standard piston, or fixed orifice. TXV is theral expansion
>valve. It adjusts the refrigerant flow based on system load and increases
>efficiency at less than maximum load.
>
>> 2. A majority of the Amana ARI ratings say " + TXV " in the AHU
>> column. I assume this means that a TX valve was installed in the AHU
>> for the test. Why would they do this when the standard unit comes with
>> a "flowrater"? Will it improve both heating and cooling performance?
>>
>The TXV at the indoor unit will improve latent heat (moisture) removal in
>the cooling mode. The indoor metering device has no function in heating
>mode. The metering device for heating mode is located in the outdoor section
>of the heat pump. Notice that heating performance is not rated in SEER,
>rather it is rated in COP (Coefficient of performance). The outdoor metering
>device is installed at the factory (TXV or fixed) and is not field
>changeable.
>
>> 3. If I go with a unit with a factory flowrater, should I insist that
>> they install a TX? I would use the unit 93% of the time for heat.
>> What does the TX improve and how? Any downsides to a TX (moving parts,
>> longevity, etc.)?
>>
>A TXV can improve cooling performance. Some ARI rating require the TXV to
>meet the standard. There is a downside to a TXV. It is more difficult to
>adjust the charge. The TXV can become stuck and cause performance issues.
>Goodman has had problems with their TXVs in some applications. The TXV costs
>more to install.
>
Jeff,
Just curious. I havent seen the problem with a TXV being more
difficult to adjust the charge?in fact, seems a lot easier. Quite
frankly, with 13 SEER here now, I think the piston flow rater crap
needs to disappear. What problems have you found with adjusting the
charge on a TXV?
Bubba :-)

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