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That's One Big Ass Ice Cube Tweedle Dee 07-17-2007
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Posted by on July 23, 2007, 9:21 am

>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:43:58 +1000, "stu"
>> >> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >But wouldnt it take less energy to make ice at night than to
>> >cool
>> >> >air
>> >> >> >> >during
>> >> >> >> >> >the day. I think thats the saving they are talking about.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Well, you see - at night, it's a lot easier to sneak up on the
>> >> >> >> >> water before you yell FREEZE !!! , because it's sleeping. So,
>> >yeh.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Well sure, you could do that if you think it helps
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> It's either that, or you'd have to put it some place really
>> >> >> >> really cold .....
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >In this case they are taking the cold to it....or taking the heat
>away
>> >if
>> >> >> >you like
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Wow. That would almost be like 'an ice making machine' or
>> >> >> something, huh ? I wonder if there's a market for something like
>that
>> >> >> ? Maybe I could build one.
>> >> >>
>> >> >Yeah it sure does. I'm sure there's a market but someone beat you to
>it.
>> >> >Maybe you couldn't?
>> >>
>> >> Who do you think put the Ho in Hoshisaki ?
>> >Why would I care?
>> >>
>> >> >But they aren't interested in making ice. They are interested in
>lowering
>> >> >the cost of cooling their building. Making ice with off-peak power
>just
>> >> >happens to be how they chose to do it. A side benefit of this is that
>it
>> >> >uses less energy to do their cooling at night.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Thermal banking is the term you're looking for.
>> >I wasnt looking for anything.
>>
>> Then why did you ask the question "But wouldnt it take less
>> energy to make ice at night than to cool air during the day. I think
>> thats the saving they are talking about." ?
>
>"Thernal banking" doesnt explain how "the system reduces ""overall
>electricity usage by 900,000 kilowatt hours annually." How did they save
>that electricity?

        The article implies that they installed a newer, more
efficient system for the ice banking generation. For $ 3,000,000, I
sure HOPE they did. Hell, even in NYC, that gets you something new
and shiny ( unless you're the UN, in which case it gets you a
preliminary study of a multi-year project planning process that will
in turn study the feasability of a 20 year project to ..... oh, I give
up. )

>A smaller temp diff between the "overnight temp and 0C" and the "daytime
>temp/the temp they chose for their forced air" would use less electicity.

        There would be some savings there.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Posted by stu on July 23, 2007, 10:19 am

>
> >
> >>
> >> >
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:43:58 +1000, "stu"
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> >But wouldnt it take less energy to make ice at night than
to
> >> >cool
> >> >> >air
> >> >> >> >> >during
> >> >> >> >> >> >the day. I think thats the saving they are talking about.
> >> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >> Well, you see - at night, it's a lot easier to sneak up on
the
> >> >> >> >> >> water before you yell FREEZE !!! , because it's sleeping.
So,
> >> >yeh.
> >> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> >Well sure, you could do that if you think it helps
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> It's either that, or you'd have to put it some place really
> >> >> >> >> really cold .....
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >In this case they are taking the cold to it....or taking the
heat
> >away
> >> >if
> >> >> >> >you like
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Wow. That would almost be like 'an ice making machine' or
> >> >> >> something, huh ? I wonder if there's a market for something like
> >that
> >> >> >> ? Maybe I could build one.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >Yeah it sure does. I'm sure there's a market but someone beat you
to
> >it.
> >> >> >Maybe you couldn't?
> >> >>
> >> >> Who do you think put the Ho in Hoshisaki ?
> >> >Why would I care?
> >> >>
> >> >> >But they aren't interested in making ice. They are interested in
> >lowering
> >> >> >the cost of cooling their building. Making ice with off-peak power
> >just
> >> >> >happens to be how they chose to do it. A side benefit of this is
that
> >it
> >> >> >uses less energy to do their cooling at night.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Thermal banking is the term you're looking for.
> >> >I wasnt looking for anything.
> >>
> >> Then why did you ask the question "But wouldnt it take less
> >> energy to make ice at night than to cool air during the day. I think
> >> thats the saving they are talking about." ?
> >
> >"Thernal banking" doesnt explain how "the system reduces ""overall
> >electricity usage by 900,000 kilowatt hours annually." How did they save
> >that electricity?
>
> The article implies that they installed a newer, more
> efficient system for the ice banking generation. For $ 3,000,000, I
> sure HOPE they did. Hell, even in NYC, that gets you something new
> and shiny ( unless you're the UN, in which case it gets you a
> preliminary study of a multi-year project planning process that will
> in turn study the feasability of a 20 year project to ..... oh, I give
> up. )

They leave out the interesting number. If they can save 900 000kWhr a
year(enough to run my house for 123 years lol) , how much are they using?
>
> >A smaller temp diff between the "overnight temp and 0C" and the "daytime
> >temp/the temp they chose for their forced air" would use less electicity.
>
> There would be some savings there.
>
>
> --
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/



Posted by on July 23, 2007, 10:34 am

>

>> >> Then why did you ask the question "But wouldnt it take less
>> >> energy to make ice at night than to cool air during the day. I think
>> >> thats the saving they are talking about." ?
>> >
>> >"Thernal banking" doesnt explain how "the system reduces ""overall
>> >electricity usage by 900,000 kilowatt hours annually." How did they save
>> >that electricity?
>>
>> The article implies that they installed a newer, more
>> efficient system for the ice banking generation. For $ 3,000,000, I
>> sure HOPE they did. Hell, even in NYC, that gets you something new
>> and shiny ( unless you're the UN, in which case it gets you a
>> preliminary study of a multi-year project planning process that will
>> in turn study the feasability of a 20 year project to ..... oh, I give
>> up. )
>
>They leave out the interesting number. If they can save 900 000kWhr a
>year(enough to run my house for 123 years lol) , how much are they using?

        A great scary buttload, I'm sure ;-)

        2,500 KWH / day = 25,000 100 W lightbulbs. if someone forgot
to turn the damned lights out ......

        it also = 29 tons per hour, if one pretends 100 %
efficiency :-) Or is it 8 tons ??? My numbers are farkled somewhere.

900,000 / 365 = ~ 2500 KWH / day, aka 104 KWH / hour

104,000 / 12,000 = 8 tons / hour.

        One would hope they saved more than either 29 or 8 effective
tons, for that kind of money ....


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

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