Home Page link

Too much humidity from my swamp cooler

Home| Search | About
Login Password
Register Now! Lost Password?

HVAC Discussions - Heating, ventilation and air conditioning. 

Page 4 of 13       < 1 2 3 > last >> Bookmark this page:  YahooMyWeb Yahoo!  Google Google  Windows Live Favorites Windows Live  del.icio.us del.icio.us  digg digg  Add to Netscape Netscape
Subject Author Date
Too much humidity from my swamp cooler Mtmartin71 09-13-2007
If you were  Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
Posted by jamesgangnc on September 14, 2007, 12:43 pm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > On Sep 14, 5:20 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >( x posted to sci.engr.heat-vent-ac for Nick )
>
> > > > > > > Thank you Paul...
>
>
> > > > > > > >>I think I got too much swamp cooler for my home (in Denver, CO).
> > > > It's
> > > > > > > >>a nice, new pro unit and very efficient. Problem is that even
> > on
> > > > low
> > > > > > > >>power, to get the house down in the 72-73F range, the humidity
> > it's
> > > > > > > >>putting into my home is an issue...
>
> > > > > > > You might build a box around it with a vent to let indoor air flow
> > > > through
> > > > > > > the pads and back into the house with a 73 F cooler thermostat and
> > use
> > > > > > > an exhaust fan with a 50% humidistat.
>
> > > > > > > But with an average daily max 88.2 F and an average humidity ratio
> > > > > > > wo = 0.0090 pounds of water per pound of dry air (Boulder in July)
> > and
> > > > > > > Pi = 0.5e^(17.863-9621/(460+73)) = 0.414 "Hg and wi =
>
> > > > 0.62198/(29.921/Pi-1)
>
> > > > > > > = .0087, swamp cooling won't work, since wi is less than wo. You
> > might
> > > > > > > air condition instead.
>
> > > > > > > Or change the setpoints to 80 F and 55% (the upper right corner of
> > the
> > > > ASHRAE
> > > > > > > comfort zone), with wi = 0.0120 and evaporate P pounds of water
> > per
> > > > hour and
> > > > > > > exhaust C cfm for Q Btu/h of net cooling, P = 60C0.075(wi-wo), ie
> > C =
> > > > 74.07P,
> > > > > > > and 1000P = Q + (88.2-80)C = Q + 607P, ie P = 0.0025Q and C =
> > 0.19Q. Q
> > > > = 24K
> > > > > > > Btu/h makes P = 60 lb/h and C = 4528 cfm (wow.)
>
> > > > > > > Or turn off the cooler and store coolth in the thermal mass of the
> > > > house when
> > > > > > > the outdoor temp is greater than 73.5 (the 24-hour average temp),
> > > > which makes
> > > > > > > P = 0.00068Q and C = 0.05Q, eg P = 16 lb/h and C = 1200 cfm, max.
>
> > > > > > > Or forget the cooler and ventilate the house with lots of night
> > air
> > > > > > > (with a 58.6 F average daily min) and button it up during the day.
>
> > > > > > > Airsealing helps. How about a blower door test?
>
> > > > > > > Nick
>
> > > > > > The OP should disregard almost everything you said with the
> > exception
> > > > > > either 'change the setpoint' or 'get real air conditioning'.
>
> > > > > > You keep hinting at applying evaporative cooling to return air,
> > which
> > > > > > is inherently flawed.
>
> > > > > > With a swamp cooler air sealing does not do much for you. You
> > require
> > > > > > pressure relief, there will be zero infiltration when that swamp
> > > > > > cooler runs, there will be an abundance of air leaving the
> > building.-
> > > > Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Well this sucks. Thanks for those who tried to answer. I'm also glad
> > > > > to see that folks like Paul and Zyp find this post humurous...freaking
> > > > > a-holes. I just burned $2000 to find out I have a cooling solution
> > > > > that is messing up about $5000 worth of guitars. Ha, ha, ha...How the
> > > > > F was I supposed to know that a swamp cooler in CO was going to dump
> > > > > too much moisture in my house to wreak havoc on my prized
> > > > > possessions.
>
> > > > > I do not have duct work and therefore no way to really do any other
> > > > > type of cooling. Wish I would have know this crap was going to happen
> > > > > before installing it.
>
> > > > Question for ya... was this a DIY project?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > No. I was professionally installed by a reputable local dealer
> > > referred to me by a real estate guy that uses him for many of his
> > > properties.
>
> > So what's the installers 'point of view' on the whole deal?- Hide quoted
text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Just gave him a call and left a message so we'll see. I did get some
> suggestions from a guitar forum. It was recommended to put large
> dessicant packets in the guitar cases during the time of year when I'm
> running it. That's what is done by guitar shops in very humid areas
> (besides running AC to dehumidify). I'll see what the installer
> thinks. It's an issue for next season now.
>
> Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just put a window unit in the room the guitars live in and keep the
door closed.


Posted by on September 15, 2007, 6:59 am

>Just put a window unit in the room the guitars live in and keep the
>door closed.

And another $80 AC with a humidistat, and a mister to provide a constant
humidity at say, 65 F and 50% with w = 0.0065, vs 0.0021-0.0090 outdoors.
Run the indoor AC if we need heat, like this, viewed in a fixed font:

too hot
----------- window AC
/
/ too cold
------ ----------- room AC
|
too wet |
---------
/
/ too dry
------ ----------- mister

with lots of insulation and room airsealing and thermal and moisture mass,
eg some hollow concrete blocks to store 0.16 Btu/lb-F on rising room temp
and 1% moisture by weight as the RH increases from 40-60%.

Nick


Posted by on September 15, 2007, 11:09 am
>
>>Just put a window unit in the room the guitars live in and keep the
>>door closed.
>
>And another $80 AC with a humidistat, and a mister to provide a constant
>humidity at say, 65 F and 50% with w = 0.0065, vs 0.0021-0.0090 outdoors.
>Run the indoor AC if we need heat, like this, viewed in a fixed font:
>
> too hot
> ----------- window AC
> /
> / too cold
>------ ----------- room AC
> |
> too wet |
> ---------
> /
> / too dry
>------ ----------- mister
>
>with lots of insulation and room airsealing and thermal and moisture mass,
>eg some hollow concrete blocks to store 0.16 Btu/lb-F on rising room temp
>and 1% moisture by weight as the RH increases from 40-60%.

On second thought, the mister is overkill, compared to a 5 gallon bucket
over a 60W bulb, surrounded by insulation. If the airsealed room leaks
5 cfm at w = 0.0021, that's 60x5x0.075dw = 0.1 lb/h, or 2 gallons/week.

A room vapor pressure Pi = 0.315 "Hg and 0.1 = 0.1x1(Pw-Pi) for a 1 ft^2
swimming pool make Pw = 1.315 at Tw = 9621/(17.863-ln(Pw))-460 = 87 F,
using a Clausius-Clapeyron approximation :-)

With no heat and 4" of R5 525 R still air above it, the water temp should
drop close to the dew point vs the wet bulb, ie 525/(1-525ln(0.5)/9621)-460
= 46 F, where it would only evaporate (65-46)1ft^2/R20/1000 = 0.001 lb/h,
or 0.02 gal/week.

Nick


Posted by -zero on September 14, 2007, 12:52 pm

>>> Question for ya... was this a DIY project?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> No. I was professionally installed by a reputable local dealer
> referred to me by a real estate guy that uses him for many of his
> properties.

He should have given you a performance guarantee for
Indoor humidity at a given temperature.

If there were minimal performance spec's offered to you,
the Realtor my have just been a shill for his pal. $$

Litigation sucks. ( and, IMHO, a Manual-J without a 1.2
multiplier sucks, too! )

In the meantime, keep every thing in one room with a dehumidifier,

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=dehumid.pr_dehumidifiers

or in a room with a small window shaker if you jam regularly.

-zero







Posted by on September 14, 2007, 1:05 pm
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:01:24 -0700, Mtmartin71

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > > On Sep 14, 5:20 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>>
>> > > > >( x posted to sci.engr.heat-vent-ac for Nick )
>>
>> > > > Thank you Paul...
>>
>>
>> > > > >>I think I got too much swamp cooler for my home (in Denver, CO).
>> It's
>> > > > >>a nice, new pro unit and very efficient. Problem is that even on
>> low
>> > > > >>power, to get the house down in the 72-73F range, the humidity it's
>> > > > >>putting into my home is an issue...
>>
>> > > > You might build a box around it with a vent to let indoor air flow
>> through
>> > > > the pads and back into the house with a 73 F cooler thermostat and use
>> > > > an exhaust fan with a 50% humidistat.
>>
>> > > > But with an average daily max 88.2 F and an average humidity ratio
>> > > > wo = 0.0090 pounds of water per pound of dry air (Boulder in July) and
>> > > > Pi = 0.5e^(17.863-9621/(460+73)) = 0.414 "Hg and wi =
>>
>> 0.62198/(29.921/Pi-1)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > > > = .0087, swamp cooling won't work, since wi is less than wo. You might
>> > > > air condition instead.
>>
>> > > > Or change the setpoints to 80 F and 55% (the upper right corner of the
>> ASHRAE
>> > > > comfort zone), with wi = 0.0120 and evaporate P pounds of water per
>> hour and
>> > > > exhaust C cfm for Q Btu/h of net cooling, P = 60C0.075(wi-wo), ie C =
>> 74.07P,
>> > > > and 1000P = Q + (88.2-80)C = Q + 607P, ie P = 0.0025Q and C = 0.19Q. Q
>> = 24K
>> > > > Btu/h makes P = 60 lb/h and C = 4528 cfm (wow.)
>>
>> > > > Or turn off the cooler and store coolth in the thermal mass of the
>> house when
>> > > > the outdoor temp is greater than 73.5 (the 24-hour average temp),
>> which makes
>> > > > P = 0.00068Q and C = 0.05Q, eg P = 16 lb/h and C = 1200 cfm, max.
>>
>> > > > Or forget the cooler and ventilate the house with lots of night air
>> > > > (with a 58.6 F average daily min) and button it up during the day.
>>
>> > > > Airsealing helps. How about a blower door test?
>>
>> > > > Nick
>>
>> > > The OP should disregard almost everything you said with the exception
>> > > either 'change the setpoint' or 'get real air conditioning'.
>>
>> > > You keep hinting at applying evaporative cooling to return air, which
>> > > is inherently flawed.
>>
>> > > With a swamp cooler air sealing does not do much for you. You require
>> > > pressure relief, there will be zero infiltration when that swamp
>> > > cooler runs, there will be an abundance of air leaving the building.-
>> Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Well this sucks. Thanks for those who tried to answer. I'm also glad
>> > to see that folks like Paul and Zyp find this post humurous...freaking
>> > a-holes. I just burned $2000 to find out I have a cooling solution
>> > that is messing up about $5000 worth of guitars. Ha, ha, ha...How the
>> > F was I supposed to know that a swamp cooler in CO was going to dump
>> > too much moisture in my house to wreak havoc on my prized
>> > possessions.
>>
>> > I do not have duct work and therefore no way to really do any other
>> > type of cooling. Wish I would have know this crap was going to happen
>> > before installing it.
>>
>> Question for ya... was this a DIY project?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>No. I was professionally installed by a reputable local dealer
>referred to me by a real estate guy that uses him for many of his
>properties.

        Well, then HE needs to fix it. Right ? If not, Why not ?


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Page 4 of 13       < 1 2 3 > last >>
Similar ThreadsPosted
Help! Where to buy True cooler parts?!?!? December 9, 2006, 4:22 pm
Walk in cooler compressor March 31, 2007, 4:49 pm
Wine Celler Cooler September 2, 2008, 11:39 pm
Apple Storage cooler insulation July 19, 2006, 6:12 pm
water-based air cooler for apartment kitchen? July 11, 2006, 11:03 pm
Humidity controll April 1, 2007, 5:09 pm
Problems with humidity sensors July 5, 2006, 11:24 pm
Office Building Humidity January 30, 2007, 12:46 pm
One Day Humidity Training Seminar May 20, 2008, 12:04 pm
Can changes in humidity crack grout? July 22, 2008, 5:17 pm

Contact Us | Privacy Policy

XML SitemapXML Sitemap