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Subject Author Date
Trane Nat. Vent furnace Dan Kohlman 12-01-2006
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Posted by on December 1, 2006, 6:06 pm
"Dan Kohlman" wrote:



> I hate to modify the furnace to solve a problem



Dan you better have a mighty large liability insurance policy if you
modify the ignition or relocate the pilot. You can convert a standing
pilot to intermittant ignition, but anything else esp relocating the
pilot voids the UL & GAMA certifications and you could be held liable
for any fires etc.

Posted by Bob_Loblaw on December 1, 2006, 6:22 pm
gofish@gonefishin.net wrote



> Dan you better have a mighty large liability insurance policy if you
> modify the ignition or relocate the pilot.


Naaaahhhhh!
He doesn't have to worry about that!
His next of kin do.......


--
Respectfully, Bob

Posted by on December 1, 2006, 10:29 am

>Greetings:
>
>I am hoping someone can offer me some assistance here. I have a
>customer that has a standing pilot Trane furnace. Some time ago it
>started failing to light the last burner once the heat exchanger was
>hot. The flame will come within about an 1 1/2 inches of the burner on
>the spreader. Of course, after a short period there will be a small
>explosion and the burner may light. This only happens when the
>exchanger is hot, it will work normally when it is cold, and don't
>happen all the time.
>
>I replaced the burner assbly, gas valve, adjusted the manifold pressure
>above 3.5" and below, I adjusted the air up and down and yet the
>problem still presists. I think I could solve the problem by moving the
>pilot to the center or restricting the air flowing to the burner, but I
>don't want to modify the furnace. I am more interested in finding the
>solution. I'm sure it is something simple that I am overlooking. One
>thing I haven't done yet was check the reaction time or flow
>differences between the Honeywell gas valves and WR that normally comes
>with the furnace.
>
>If anyone can help me I will greatly appreciated it and so will my
>customer.
>
>Thanks in advance


prior to replacement, was the gas valve in the furnace the original
oem valve?

you've inspected the flue & vent for any obstructions?

Is there adequate combustion and makeup air?

Orifaces not plugged or partially restricted?

you've did a complete & thorough inspection of the hx for cracks etc?

years ago I had to replace a 400,000 btu valve, only to find out the
largest available then was 350,000. Same problem, not enuf gas to
reach the last few burners. 5/16 brass plugs on the outer burners
solved that problem. Over firing is not recommended.....

Posted by Dan Kohlman on December 1, 2006, 12:57 pm

gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>
> >Greetings:
> >
> >I am hoping someone can offer me some assistance here. I have a
> >customer that has a standing pilot Trane furnace. Some time ago it
> >started failing to light the last burner once the heat exchanger was
> >hot. The flame will come within about an 1 1/2 inches of the burner on
> >the spreader. Of course, after a short period there will be a small
> >explosion and the burner may light. This only happens when the
> >exchanger is hot, it will work normally when it is cold, and don't
> >happen all the time.
> >
> >I replaced the burner assbly, gas valve, adjusted the manifold pressure
> >above 3.5" and below, I adjusted the air up and down and yet the
> >problem still presists. I think I could solve the problem by moving the
> >pilot to the center or restricting the air flowing to the burner, but I
> >don't want to modify the furnace. I am more interested in finding the
> >solution. I'm sure it is something simple that I am overlooking. One
> >thing I haven't done yet was check the reaction time or flow
> >differences between the Honeywell gas valves and WR that normally comes
> >with the furnace.
> >
> >If anyone can help me I will greatly appreciated it and so will my
> >customer.
> >
> >Thanks in advance
>
>
> prior to replacement, was the gas valve in the furnace the original
> oem valve?
>
> you've inspected the flue & vent for any obstructions?
>
> Is there adequate combustion and makeup air?
>
> Orifaces not plugged or partially restricted?
>
> you've did a complete & thorough inspection of the hx for cracks etc?
>
> years ago I had to replace a 400,000 btu valve, only to find out the
> largest available then was 350,000. Same problem, not enuf gas to
> reach the last few burners. 5/16 brass plugs on the outer burners
> solved that problem. Over firing is not recommended.....

Hi:
Yes the valve was the orginal WR. I have checked the flue and we have
plenty of combustion air. I also cleaned out the manifold and orfices
but
nothing of consequence there. There are no indications of a cracked HX.
What your saying about the valve is my last thought. I have replaced
many
of the WR valves with the Honeywell and they all worked fine. To be on
the
safe side I even replaced the Honeywell valve with another just in case
there
was a problem in the valve, yet still the problem persists.
Unfortunately I can't
plug the outer burner, that is causing the problem since it is only a
100K
furnace. If you think of anything else I will greatly appreciate it.
Thanks again
Dan


Posted by -zero on December 1, 2006, 2:48 pm

> Greetings:
>
> I am hoping someone can offer me some assistance here. I have a
> customer that has a standing pilot Trane furnace. Some time ago it
> started failing to light the last burner once the heat exchanger was
> hot. The flame will come within about an 1 1/2 inches of the burner on
> the spreader.

There ya go. That's what _should_ happen when the spreader bar does
not reach a burner. Spreaders come in many designs. The "fit and finish",
if you will, is paramount to its working properly. The spreader flame should
spread evenly whether cold or hot.
With that said, flame propagation behaves differently depending
how it's fuel and air are mixed, and mixing environment. (still air vs.
turbulent)

For example, on some Parker boilers/oil heaters, there is a separate
orifice/air venturi just for the spreader that is lit-off by the pilot
flame.
You can remove, clean and adjust the assembly so its just right every time.
(like a mini main burner)

If the spreader is a capture type devise running perpendicularly across
the tops of tube burners, using the main fuel mix from each burner, the
adjustment of each burners fuel/air becomes important. (possible flame
diffusion interaction)

As the flame moves from over one burner to the next, it can be stopped
in it's tracks by misalignment, (like when the burner has been running a
while
and may warp the spreader bar slightly) too lean of a mix in a particular
burner (maybe right next to the burner that won't light) or even a crack
or split in the combustion chamber section _next_ to the section that
won't light (may open up more when the furnace has run for a long time).
If the filter is plugged and the burner cycles while the blower is
running
(cracked exchanger, or a blower door improperly sealed after a service)
causing turbulent air where it shouldn't be.

And the list goes on and on. (all these things, a home owner will never
think
even exist in this "simple" trade)

-zero





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