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Subject Author Date
Two Stage AC Question Al Moran 10-21-2006
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Posted by on October 22, 2006, 9:20 pm

>
>> Al Moran wrote:
>>
>>> I worked on a 2 stage carrier package yesterday (single compressor,
>>>double pole contactor, 208v) that would open the contactor every time
>>>the 2d stage kicked on. I suspect something is wrong with the windings
>>
>>
>> I for one would like to know how in the hell you get two stages
>> from a single compressor, unless it is that Bristol twin/single.
>> And since when is carrier putting them in package units?
>>
>> Post a model number Al.
>
> Actually Two stage compressors are made by Carlyle, Copland
> and perhaps some others but not the way is described by Al
> Copeland type 6RB1 three heads 6 cylinder one head high pressure
> two heads low pressure. typically in (10 one head) and
> 20 HP it come mounted on top of condenser with liquid subcooler
>attached.
> Carlyle similar configuration but with 30 HP. I did not come
> across their smaller size's if there is one.
> Machines are use at 40 to 50 below zero, R-502 and R-404a.
>
> Now if we were to look at electrical system I would say
> that two stage start you would be looking at three phase
> STAR DELTA START where would two pole contactor
> come in use sorry don't know. it seems that something
> is missing here.
> Dido say that


He's right about the compressor and contactor.

Posted by on October 22, 2006, 9:18 pm
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 08:41:08 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:

> Al Moran wrote:
>
>> I worked on a 2 stage carrier package yesterday (single compressor,
>>double pole contactor, 208v) that would open the contactor every time
>>the 2d stage kicked on. I suspect something is wrong with the windings
>
>
> I for one would like to know how in the hell you get two stages
>from a single compressor, unless it is that Bristol twin/single.
>And since when is carrier putting them in package units?
>
>Post a model number Al.
>
>
>
>
>>or internal overload of the compressor but if that were the case I
>>don't understand why it would run fine in first stage and then die
>>immediately when second stage is energized. It loses the low voltage
>>at the contactor and if I push the contactor in when it happens it
>>runs. also, there are low and high pressure cutouts in it, when I
>>checked the pressure in 1st stage they were 210/68 at 80 degrees oat.
>>The second stage cuts out so fast I could not get a pressure or amp
>>reading. The fla is 19 and it draws 12a in 1st stage.


I don't have the model number off hand but it is a package system on a
commercial property, has a single scroll in it, has y1 and y2
connections (though the stat is not wired for 2 stage), second stage
comes on by a time delay circuit, schematic indicates it's a 2 stage
also, has a damper that actuates for outside air when it comes on, has
a belt driven blower in it.

Posted by on October 23, 2006, 11:09 am
Al Moran wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 08:41:08 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>
>> Al Moran wrote:
>>
>>> I worked on a 2 stage carrier package yesterday (single compressor,
>>>double pole contactor, 208v) that would open the contactor every time
>>>the 2d stage kicked on. I suspect something is wrong with the windings
>>
>>
>> I for one would like to know how in the hell you get two stages
>>from a single compressor, unless it is that Bristol twin/single.
>>And since when is carrier putting them in package units?
>>
>>Post a model number Al.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>or internal overload of the compressor but if that were the case I
>>>don't understand why it would run fine in first stage and then die
>>>immediately when second stage is energized. It loses the low voltage
>>>at the contactor and if I push the contactor in when it happens it
>>>runs. also, there are low and high pressure cutouts in it, when I
>>>checked the pressure in 1st stage they were 210/68 at 80 degrees oat.
>>>The second stage cuts out so fast I could not get a pressure or amp
>>>reading. The fla is 19 and it draws 12a in 1st stage.
>
>
>I don't have the model number off hand but it is a package system on a
>commercial property, has a single scroll in it, has y1 and y2
>connections (though the stat is not wired for 2 stage), second stage
>comes on by a time delay circuit, schematic indicates it's a 2 stage
>also, has a damper that actuates for outside air when it comes on, has
>a belt driven blower in it.

hey Al....... I know exactly which model you're talking about, and
yeah they're typically installed with a single stage t-stat.

y1=Economizer cooling
y2= compressor

you need to get your hands on the operational manual for the
economizer, then and only then will you begin to figure out whats
happening. It is entirely possible y1 settings are keeping y2 locked
out during specific time periods, based on built in temps in the
economizer controls package.

Now if you happen to have one of those two wire Carrier economizer
bypass plugs, unplug the econo, plug in your bypass plug, and now
y1=compressor, and goodbye carrier econo-horseshit.

Posted by on October 23, 2006, 7:23 pm
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:09:16 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:

> Al Moran wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 08:41:08 GMT, gofish@gonefishin.net wrote:
>>
>>> Al Moran wrote:
>>>
>>>> I worked on a 2 stage carrier package yesterday (single compressor,
>>>>double pole contactor, 208v) that would open the contactor every time
>>>>the 2d stage kicked on. I suspect something is wrong with the windings
>>>
>>>
>>> I for one would like to know how in the hell you get two stages
>>>from a single compressor, unless it is that Bristol twin/single.
>>>And since when is carrier putting them in package units?
>>>
>>>Post a model number Al.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>or internal overload of the compressor but if that were the case I
>>>>don't understand why it would run fine in first stage and then die
>>>>immediately when second stage is energized. It loses the low voltage
>>>>at the contactor and if I push the contactor in when it happens it
>>>>runs. also, there are low and high pressure cutouts in it, when I
>>>>checked the pressure in 1st stage they were 210/68 at 80 degrees oat.
>>>>The second stage cuts out so fast I could not get a pressure or amp
>>>>reading. The fla is 19 and it draws 12a in 1st stage.
>>
>>
>>I don't have the model number off hand but it is a package system on a
>>commercial property, has a single scroll in it, has y1 and y2
>>connections (though the stat is not wired for 2 stage), second stage
>>comes on by a time delay circuit, schematic indicates it's a 2 stage
>>also, has a damper that actuates for outside air when it comes on, has
>>a belt driven blower in it.
>
>hey Al....... I know exactly which model you're talking about, and
>yeah they're typically installed with a single stage t-stat.
>
>y1=Economizer cooling
>y2= compressor
>
>you need to get your hands on the operational manual for the
>economizer, then and only then will you begin to figure out whats
>happening. It is entirely possible y1 settings are keeping y2 locked
>out during specific time periods, based on built in temps in the
>economizer controls package.
>
>Now if you happen to have one of those two wire Carrier economizer
>bypass plugs, unplug the econo, plug in your bypass plug, and now
>y1=compressor, and goodbye carrier econo-horseshit.


I did that very thing today and it worked like a charm.

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