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UPDATE #1 -- Re: A/C problem, need help ASAP

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UPDATE #1 -- Re: A/C problem, need help ASAP Ignoramus2645 08-02-2006
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Posted by DoN. Nichols on August 3, 2006, 12:13 am
> > There ought to be a diagram somewhere, and some markings on the
> > capacitor, that will tell you what you need to know. Anything else
> > is just guessing.
> >
>
> Yea. Great idea. Here's the diagram:
>
> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/AC-Compressor/diagram.jpg
>
> It is actually very straightforward.

        And -- you can see the time delay module under the varnish (or
whatever) at the bottom right of the diagram -- in series with the
contactor coil, and an optional switch in which the high pressure side
of the refrigerant pump can prevent start even if the timer has timed
out. (But -- that is described as "optional", and the delay timer (as
much as I can make out under the varnish) is not described as
"optional", but it *is* described as "accessory" -- so I suspect that
you have two failures -- the compressor, and the delay timer which
induced the compressor failure, and which will induce it again if not
replaced when the compressor is replaced.

        It looks as though there is only one set of contacts in the
contactor, and the other set of terminals serves simply as a terminal
strip to carry the other side of the 240 VAC over without switching it.

        This is *not* a good time of the year to have an air conditioner
fail -- and also not a good time to try to get a licensed professional
out to work on it.

        You might save one round trip (probably with significant delays)
if you warn them ahead of time that the compressor is likely dead. If
you can, dig up the numbers from the compressor case -- or if you can't
get to that, at least the model number of the overall device.

        Good Luck,
                DoN.
--
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Posted by Ignoramus2645 on August 3, 2006, 2:44 am
>> > There ought to be a diagram somewhere, and some markings on the
>> > capacitor, that will tell you what you need to know. Anything else
>> > is just guessing.
>> >
>>
>> Yea. Great idea. Here's the diagram:
>>
>> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/AC-Compressor/diagram.jpg
>>
>> It is actually very straightforward.
>
>         And -- you can see the time delay module under the varnish (or
> whatever) at the bottom right of the diagram -- in series with the
> contactor coil, and an optional switch in which the high pressure side
> of the refrigerant pump can prevent start even if the timer has timed
> out. (But -- that is described as "optional", and the delay timer (as
> much as I can make out under the varnish) is not described as
> "optional", but it *is* described as "accessory" -- so I suspect that
> you have two failures -- the compressor, and the delay timer which
> induced the compressor failure, and which will induce it again if not
> replaced when the compressor is replaced.
>
>         It looks as though there is only one set of contacts in the
> contactor, and the other set of terminals serves simply as a terminal
> strip to carry the other side of the 240 VAC over without switching it.
>
>         This is *not* a good time of the year to have an air conditioner
> fail -- and also not a good time to try to get a licensed professional
> out to work on it.
>
>         You might save one round trip (probably with significant delays)
> if you warn them ahead of time that the compressor is likely dead. If
> you can, dig up the numbers from the compressor case -- or if you can't
> get to that, at least the model number of the overall device.

I am now convinced that it is true, the compressor unit is dead. These
guys that service my equipment are in my town, a trip should not be
too much for them, and also, after looking at the outside unit, I
think that I want something better.

i


Posted by stevek on August 3, 2006, 4:24 am
Notice in series with the "C" terminal on the Compressor, there is an
overload device. This is a self reseting current limit that most likely
is part of the plug that connects to the C, S, and R terminals of the
compressor (these stand for Common, Start and Run). Or it is a separate
device but in thermal contact with the compressor can. Klicks-on is a
Texas Instumentcompany that makes these. The diagram indicates "if
used" but I believe it has to be there to protect the compressor motor
in the case where it has a locked rotor from differential pressure, and
it does not have enough starting torque.
Pull the C,S, and R plug, and perform a resistance measurement between
C and S and C and R. These should be less then 10 ohm measurements.
SteveK
Ignoramus2645 wrote:
> >> > There ought to be a diagram somewhere, and some markings on the
> >> > capacitor, that will tell you what you need to know. Anything else
> >> > is just guessing.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yea. Great idea. Here's the diagram:
> >>
> >> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/AC-Compressor/diagram.jpg
> >>
> >> It is actually very straightforward.
> >
> >         And -- you can see the time delay module under the varnish (or
> > whatever) at the bottom right of the diagram -- in series with the
> > contactor coil, and an optional switch in which the high pressure side
> > of the refrigerant pump can prevent start even if the timer has timed
> > out. (But -- that is described as "optional", and the delay timer (as
> > much as I can make out under the varnish) is not described as
> > "optional", but it *is* described as "accessory" -- so I suspect that
> > you have two failures -- the compressor, and the delay timer which
> > induced the compressor failure, and which will induce it again if not
> > replaced when the compressor is replaced.
> >
> >         It looks as though there is only one set of contacts in the
> > contactor, and the other set of terminals serves simply as a terminal
> > strip to carry the other side of the 240 VAC over without switching it.
> >
> >         This is *not* a good time of the year to have an air conditioner
> > fail -- and also not a good time to try to get a licensed professional
> > out to work on it.
> >
> >         You might save one round trip (probably with significant delays)
> > if you warn them ahead of time that the compressor is likely dead. If
> > you can, dig up the numbers from the compressor case -- or if you can't
> > get to that, at least the model number of the overall device.
>
> I am now convinced that it is true, the compressor unit is dead. These
> guys that service my equipment are in my town, a trip should not be
> too much for them, and also, after looking at the outside unit, I
> think that I want something better.
>
> i


Posted by Ignoramus1064 on August 3, 2006, 6:10 am
> Notice in series with the "C" terminal on the Compressor, there is an
> overload device. This is a self reseting current limit that most likely
> is part of the plug that connects to the C, S, and R terminals of the
> compressor (these stand for Common, Start and Run). Or it is a separate
> device but in thermal contact with the compressor can. Klicks-on is a
> Texas Instumentcompany that makes these. The diagram indicates "if
> used" but I believe it has to be there to protect the compressor motor
> in the case where it has a locked rotor from differential pressure, and
> it does not have enough starting torque.
> Pull the C,S, and R plug, and perform a resistance measurement between
> C and S and C and R. These should be less then 10 ohm measurements.

Steve, mine does not look like a plug, more like three terminals.

I am not sure if there is an overload.

i

> SteveK
> Ignoramus2645 wrote:
>> >> > There ought to be a diagram somewhere, and some markings on the
>> >> > capacitor, that will tell you what you need to know. Anything else
>> >> > is just guessing.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Yea. Great idea. Here's the diagram:
>> >>
>> >> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/AC-Compressor/diagram.jpg
>> >>
>> >> It is actually very straightforward.
>> >
>> >         And -- you can see the time delay module under the varnish (or
>> > whatever) at the bottom right of the diagram -- in series with the
>> > contactor coil, and an optional switch in which the high pressure side
>> > of the refrigerant pump can prevent start even if the timer has timed
>> > out. (But -- that is described as "optional", and the delay timer (as
>> > much as I can make out under the varnish) is not described as
>> > "optional", but it *is* described as "accessory" -- so I suspect that
>> > you have two failures -- the compressor, and the delay timer which
>> > induced the compressor failure, and which will induce it again if not
>> > replaced when the compressor is replaced.
>> >
>> >         It looks as though there is only one set of contacts in the
>> > contactor, and the other set of terminals serves simply as a terminal
>> > strip to carry the other side of the 240 VAC over without switching it.
>> >
>> >         This is *not* a good time of the year to have an air conditioner
>> > fail -- and also not a good time to try to get a licensed professional
>> > out to work on it.
>> >
>> >         You might save one round trip (probably with significant delays)
>> > if you warn them ahead of time that the compressor is likely dead. If
>> > you can, dig up the numbers from the compressor case -- or if you can't
>> > get to that, at least the model number of the overall device.
>>
>> I am now convinced that it is true, the compressor unit is dead. These
>> guys that service my equipment are in my town, a trip should not be
>> too much for them, and also, after looking at the outside unit, I
>> think that I want something better.
>>
>> i
>


Posted by Noon-Air on August 3, 2006, 8:49 am


>>> I am now convinced that it is true, the compressor unit is dead. These
>>> guys that service my equipment are in my town, a trip should not be
>>> too much for them, and also, after looking at the outside unit, I
>>> think that I want something better.

Now that we know that what you have is *probably* a Goodman/Janitrol, or an
Intertherm, fill us in on a few more details... Is it a house or a trailer??
Is it gas heat?? or electric?? The answers will determine what
recommendations you will get. While you are thinking about replacement,
check this link for a little food for thought.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/hcfc.html



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