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Posted by Marc O'Brien - ACRTC on January 25, 2009, 6:43 am
On Jan 25, 11:41=A0am, "Marc O'Brien - ACRTC"
> > Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
> > >> Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
> > >>> I'll check back here for comments on my article draft notes whcih c=
an
> > >>> be read at...
> > >>>http://www.hvacrforums.com/showthread.php?p=3D753#post753
> > >>> Thanks.
> > >> Just can't leave without spamming us. Even Mel Damron was better the=
n
> > >> that. Thats right.. His forum failed too after a long run.
> > > Lol, everything eventually fails. Think back to all the empires that
> > > ever existed. Thank back to when alt.hvac was thriving. It may not
> > > always be entropy but it always happens.
> > > I'm beggining to think this place would be better by a long shot
> > > without you.
> > I doubt that you are capable of lucid thought. Nice try though.
> > > Off course I'm not likely to return here and see any constructive
> > > comments regarding vacuum rise test anomalies, am I?
> > Why should anyone rehash something that we have all be educated in long
> > ago.
> Hi Don, good question. That is precisely why I'm going to be writing
> the article today.
> Firstly, why rehash something that we were all taught long ago? Well,
> usually because of progress. For instance when we discovered that the
> earth was no longer the centre of the universe and that the sun does
> not revolve around the earth we rehashed what was traditionally
> taught. We no longer teach that there are angels behind the sun
> pushing it around - this theory, though widely taught in its day, has
> been modified.
> You see, everyone I speak to does exactly as I have always done.
> Everyone puts the system on for as long a vacuum as they need,usually
> 24hrs these days, and only then do they carry out a vacuum rise test
> for moisture. With smaller mini splits up to say 20kW most engineers
> will go for about 1 to 2 hrs vacuuming before doing a vac rise test.
> But with VRV systems it tends to be 24hrs.
> My point here is that if there is water in the system (note I say
> water and not moisture) then especially if that water is in insulated
> pipe on a cold day it will turn to ice over 24 hours of vacuum
> whereafter there is a very good chance that its precense will not be
> detected because the ice may very well not, within 30 minutes, create
> a discernable vapour pressure rise.
> So I think that what I was taught and what you were taught, all those
> years back, should be rehashed. What should be taught now is that a
> vacuum rise test should take place before any possible water content
> has had the chance to freeze below the sublimation line. This means a
> rise test should take place immediately after the first instance a
> vacuum of ay 2000 microns has been reached. If no rise occurs then it
> is safe to vacuum and to also omit the rise test normally taken at the
> end of the 24hr vacuum. If a rise occurs then another strategy be
> drafted depending on the site, kit size, ambient temperature and time
> permitted etc.
> http://www.marcobrien.org.uk- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Note to all, you heard it here on alt.hvac first :-)
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Posted by Marc O'Brien - ACRTC on January 26, 2009, 8:36 am
On Jan 25, 11:43=A0am, "Marc O'Brien - ACRTC"
> On Jan 25, 11:41=A0am, "Marc O'Brien - ACRTC"
> > > Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
> > > >> Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
> > > >>> I'll check back here for comments on my article draft notes whcih=
can
> > > >>> be read at...
> > > >>>http://www.hvacrforums.com/showthread.php?p=3D753#post753
> > > >>> Thanks.
> > > >> Just can't leave without spamming us. Even Mel Damron was better t=
hen
> > > >> that. Thats right.. His forum failed too after a long run.
> > > > Lol, everything eventually fails. Think back to all the empires tha=
t
> > > > ever existed. Thank back to when alt.hvac was thriving. It may not
> > > > always be entropy but it always happens.
> > > > I'm beggining to think this place would be better by a long shot
> > > > without you.
> > > I doubt that you are capable of lucid thought. Nice try though.
> > > > Off course I'm not likely to return here and see any constructive
> > > > comments regarding vacuum rise test anomalies, am I?
> > > Why should anyone rehash something that we have all be educated in lo=
ng
> > > ago.
> > Hi Don, good question. That is precisely why I'm going to be writing
> > the article today.
> > Firstly, why rehash something that we were all taught long ago? Well,
> > usually because of progress. For instance when we discovered that the
> > earth was no longer the centre of the universe and that the sun does
> > not revolve around the earth we rehashed what was traditionally
> > taught. We no longer teach that there are angels behind the sun
> > pushing it around - this theory, though widely taught in its day, has
> > been modified.
> > You see, everyone I speak to does exactly as I have always done.
> > Everyone puts the system on for as long a vacuum as they need,usually
> > 24hrs these days, and only then do they carry out a vacuum rise test
> > for moisture. With smaller mini splits up to say 20kW most engineers
> > will go for about 1 to 2 hrs vacuuming before doing a vac rise test.
> > But with VRV systems it tends to be 24hrs.
> > My point here is that if there is water in the system (note I say
> > water and not moisture) then especially if that water is in insulated
> > pipe on a cold day it will turn to ice over 24 hours of vacuum
> > whereafter there is a very good chance that its precense will not be
> > detected because the ice may very well not, within 30 minutes, create
> > a discernable vapour pressure rise.
> > So I think that what I was taught and what you were taught, all those
> > years back, should be rehashed. What should be taught now is that a
> > vacuum rise test should take place before any possible water content
> > has had the chance to freeze below the sublimation line. This means a
> > rise test should take place immediately after the first instance a
> > vacuum of ay 2000 microns has been reached. If no rise occurs then it
> > is safe to vacuum and to also omit the rise test normally taken at the
> > end of the 24hr vacuum. If a rise occurs then another strategy be
> > drafted depending on the site, kit size, ambient temperature and time
> > permitted etc.
> >http://www.marcobrien.org.uk-Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Note to all, you heard it here on alt.hvac first :-)- Hide quoted text -
There are quite a few videos on youtube showing water boiling in a
vacuum. Some show the water turning ice. Some show water from fridges
in bottles supercooled to below freezing which then freeze upon
shaking or pouring,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3DECOMAbLI1V4
|
|
Posted by Jim Dandy on January 27, 2009, 11:31 pm
On Jan 25, 11:43 am, "Marc O'Brien - ACRTC"
> On Jan 25, 11:41 am, "Marc O'Brien - ACRTC"
> > > Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
> > > >> Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
> > > >>> I'll check back here for comments on my article draft notes whcih
> > > >>> can
> > > >>> be read at...
> > > >>>http://www.hvacrforums.com/showthread.php?p=753#post753
> > > >>> Thanks.
> > > >> Just can't leave without spamming us. Even Mel Damron was better
> > > >> then
> > > >> that. Thats right.. His forum failed too after a long run.
> > > > Lol, everything eventually fails. Think back to all the empires that
> > > > ever existed. Thank back to when alt.hvac was thriving. It may not
> > > > always be entropy but it always happens.
> > > > I'm beggining to think this place would be better by a long shot
> > > > without you.
> > > I doubt that you are capable of lucid thought. Nice try though.
> > > > Off course I'm not likely to return here and see any constructive
> > > > comments regarding vacuum rise test anomalies, am I?
> > > Why should anyone rehash something that we have all be educated in
> > > long
> > > ago.
> > Hi Don, good question. That is precisely why I'm going to be writing
> > the article today.
> > Firstly, why rehash something that we were all taught long ago? Well,
> > usually because of progress. For instance when we discovered that the
> > earth was no longer the centre of the universe and that the sun does
> > not revolve around the earth we rehashed what was traditionally
> > taught. We no longer teach that there are angels behind the sun
> > pushing it around - this theory, though widely taught in its day, has
> > been modified.
> > You see, everyone I speak to does exactly as I have always done.
> > Everyone puts the system on for as long a vacuum as they need,usually
> > 24hrs these days, and only then do they carry out a vacuum rise test
> > for moisture. With smaller mini splits up to say 20kW most engineers
> > will go for about 1 to 2 hrs vacuuming before doing a vac rise test.
> > But with VRV systems it tends to be 24hrs.
> > My point here is that if there is water in the system (note I say
> > water and not moisture) then especially if that water is in insulated
> > pipe on a cold day it will turn to ice over 24 hours of vacuum
> > whereafter there is a very good chance that its precense will not be
> > detected because the ice may very well not, within 30 minutes, create
> > a discernable vapour pressure rise.
> > So I think that what I was taught and what you were taught, all those
> > years back, should be rehashed. What should be taught now is that a
> > vacuum rise test should take place before any possible water content
> > has had the chance to freeze below the sublimation line. This means a
> > rise test should take place immediately after the first instance a
> > vacuum of ay 2000 microns has been reached. If no rise occurs then it
> > is safe to vacuum and to also omit the rise test normally taken at the
> > end of the 24hr vacuum. If a rise occurs then another strategy be
> > drafted depending on the site, kit size, ambient temperature and time
> > permitted etc.
> >http://www.marcobrien.org.uk-Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> Note to all, you heard it here on alt.hvac first :-)- Hide quoted text -
There are quite a few videos on youtube showing water boiling in a
vacuum. Some show the water turning ice. Some show water from fridges
in bottles supercooled to below freezing which then freeze upon
shaking or pouring,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ECOMAbLI1V4
You can bet your ass that doesn't happen in a Lucas refrigerator.
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Posted by AllTemp on February 6, 2009, 2:22 am
On Jan 24, 3:01=A0am, "Marc O'Brien - ACRTC"
> > Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
> > > I'll check back here for comments on my article draft notes whcih can
> > > be read at...
> > >http://www.hvacrforums.com/showthread.php?p=3D753#post753
> > > Thanks.
> > Just can't leave without spamming us. EvenMelDamronwas better then
> > that. Thats right.. His forum failed too after a long run.
> Lol, everything eventually fails. Think back to all the empires that
> ever existed. Thank back to when alt.hvac was thriving. It may not
> always be entropy but it always happens.
> I'm beggining to think this place would be better by a long shot
> without you.
> Off course I'm not likely to return here and see any constructive
> comments regarding vacuum rise test anomalies, am I? You just
> stubbornly are chained to this one track. A little like a druggies
> addiction.
Failed my aching ASS
Purchased by Contractor Magazine and is now one of the Largest HVAC
Sites on the internet
Http://hvac-talk.com
|
|
Posted by Don Ocean on February 6, 2009, 4:24 am
AllTemp wrote:
> On Jan 24, 3:01 am, "Marc O'Brien - ACRTC"
>>> Marc O'Brien - ACRTC wrote:
>>>> I'll check back here for comments on my article draft notes whcih can
>>>> be read at...
>>>> http://www.hvacrforums.com/showthread.php?p=753#post753
>>>> Thanks.
>>> Just can't leave without spamming us. EvenMelDamronwas better then
>>> that. Thats right.. His forum failed too after a long run.
>> Lol, everything eventually fails. Think back to all the empires that
>> ever existed. Thank back to when alt.hvac was thriving. It may not
>> always be entropy but it always happens.
>> I'm beggining to think this place would be better by a long shot
>> without you.
>> Off course I'm not likely to return here and see any constructive
>> comments regarding vacuum rise test anomalies, am I? You just
>> stubbornly are chained to this one track. A little like a druggies
>> addiction.
>
> Failed my aching ASS
>
> Purchased by Contractor Magazine and is now one of the Largest HVAC
> Sites on the internet
>
> Http://hvac-talk.com
Been wondering what happened to you. Thought maybe the California Penal
system caught up with you. ;-p
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