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What Drives Refrigerant Pricing?

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What Drives Refrigerant Pricing? Optimum 08-20-2008
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Posted by Optimum on August 20, 2008, 5:20 pm


About 30 years ago one could purchase R12 refrigerant for the amazingly low
price of a dollar a pound (before the 12 oz. container days). I'd seen those
twelve ounce cans available for as little as 79 cents and R22 was
exceptionally cheap as well. Of course, we all know full well what has
happened since then. The question, however, remains was it demand or
speculation ;-)

Seriously, since we now have been educated by environmental scientists to
know the harmful effects of freon to our spherical home, is the supply of
R12 knowingly regulated? I believe that it is in the interim to allow for an
artificially high pricing mechanism to support blended refrigerants, which
might not be able to carry their own pricing weight if the gold standard
(R12) had been more rapidly removed from the market. History has shown that
R12 can be made very cheaply. It is not a petroleum based product. The most
expensive component in its manufacture is fluorine, which can be least
expensively derived from the electrolysis of potassium fluoride and/or
hydrogen fluoride. It was patented way back in 1928, long before the day of
modern rocket science.It's not much more complicated than boot polish or
bottled chlorine bleach.

So I'm almost forced to believe that its pricing is governed by its
manufacturers whose political connections have allowed it to be highly
regulated, forcing a high demand to become highly depressed because of
artificially hyperinflated pricing. This, of course, forces the demand for
cheaper substitutes, which allows companies such as Dupont to expand its
product universe to manufacture and profit from blends of questionable
necessity for prices that oil company execs only might not salivate
over.That is not to say, however, that blends are universally bad. Dupont
Puron (R410) is more efficient than R22, but at an unjustifiably higher
price.Its efficiency is largely inherent to its much higher run pressure,
increasing the chance for expensive leaks. Higher system costs and greater
repair bills are not a small price to pay for cheaper energy requirements,
but once again, we're given a number of years to get used to the idea.

If Freon could be discovered the best part of a century ago, it seems
reasonable that modern chemists could discover another unblended refrigerant
with favorable characteristics to R12. Blended refrigerants remind me of
the 1970's when planned obsolescence began the decline of the American
automaking industry.We're being held hostage to an enormously greedy
industry which audaciously tells us that they have only our best interests
in mind.



Posted by mike on August 21, 2008, 5:58 pm


Same thing that drives everything else. Supply and demand.
If you can't make the stuff, supply goes down rapidly.

Optimum wrote:
> About 30 years ago one could purchase R12 refrigerant for the amazingly low
> price of a dollar a pound (before the 12 oz. container days). I'd seen those
> twelve ounce cans available for as little as 79 cents and R22 was
> exceptionally cheap as well. Of course, we all know full well what has
> happened since then. The question, however, remains was it demand or
> speculation ;-)
>
> Seriously, since we now have been educated by environmental scientists to
> know the harmful effects of freon to our spherical home, is the supply of
> R12 knowingly regulated? I believe that it is in the interim to allow for an
> artificially high pricing mechanism to support blended refrigerants, which
> might not be able to carry their own pricing weight if the gold standard
> (R12) had been more rapidly removed from the market. History has shown that
> R12 can be made very cheaply. It is not a petroleum based product. The most
> expensive component in its manufacture is fluorine, which can be least
> expensively derived from the electrolysis of potassium fluoride and/or
> hydrogen fluoride. It was patented way back in 1928, long before the day of
> modern rocket science.It's not much more complicated than boot polish or
> bottled chlorine bleach.
>
> So I'm almost forced to believe that its pricing is governed by its
> manufacturers whose political connections have allowed it to be highly
> regulated, forcing a high demand to become highly depressed because of
> artificially hyperinflated pricing. This, of course, forces the demand for
> cheaper substitutes, which allows companies such as Dupont to expand its
> product universe to manufacture and profit from blends of questionable
> necessity for prices that oil company execs only might not salivate
> over.That is not to say, however, that blends are universally bad. Dupont
> Puron (R410) is more efficient than R22, but at an unjustifiably higher
> price.Its efficiency is largely inherent to its much higher run pressure,
> increasing the chance for expensive leaks. Higher system costs and greater
> repair bills are not a small price to pay for cheaper energy requirements,
> but once again, we're given a number of years to get used to the idea.
>
> If Freon could be discovered the best part of a century ago, it seems
> reasonable that modern chemists could discover another unblended refrigerant
> with favorable characteristics to R12. Blended refrigerants remind me of
> the 1970's when planned obsolescence began the decline of the American
> automaking industry.We're being held hostage to an enormously greedy
> industry which audaciously tells us that they have only our best interests
> in mind.
>
>

Posted by Zyp on August 25, 2008, 5:52 pm


Optimum wrote:
> About 30 years ago one could purchase R12 refrigerant for the
> amazingly low price of a dollar a pound (before the 12 oz. container
> days). I'd seen those twelve ounce cans available for as little as 79
> cents and R22 was exceptionally cheap as well. Of course, we all know
> full well what has happened since then. The question, however,
> remains was it demand or speculation ;-)
> Seriously, since we now have been educated by environmental
> scientists to know the harmful effects of freon to our spherical
> home, is the supply of R12 knowingly regulated? I believe that it is
> in the interim to allow for an artificially high pricing mechanism to
> support blended refrigerants, which might not be able to carry their
> own pricing weight if the gold standard (R12) had been more rapidly
> removed from the market. History has shown that R12 can be made very
> cheaply. It is not a petroleum based product. The most expensive
> component in its manufacture is fluorine, which can be least
> expensively derived from the electrolysis of potassium fluoride
> and/or hydrogen fluoride. It was patented way back in 1928, long
> before the day of modern rocket science.It's not much more
> complicated than boot polish or bottled chlorine bleach.
> So I'm almost forced to believe that its pricing is governed by its
> manufacturers whose political connections have allowed it to be highly
> regulated, forcing a high demand to become highly depressed because
> of artificially hyperinflated pricing. This, of course, forces the
> demand for cheaper substitutes, which allows companies such as Dupont
> to expand its product universe to manufacture and profit from blends
> of questionable necessity for prices that oil company execs only
> might not salivate over.That is not to say, however, that blends are
> universally bad. Dupont Puron (R410) is more efficient than R22, but
> at an unjustifiably higher price.Its efficiency is largely inherent
> to its much higher run pressure, increasing the chance for expensive
> leaks. Higher system costs and greater repair bills are not a small
> price to pay for cheaper energy requirements, but once again, we're
> given a number of years to get used to the idea.
> If Freon could be discovered the best part of a century ago, it seems
> reasonable that modern chemists could discover another unblended
> refrigerant with favorable characteristics to R12. Blended
> refrigerants remind me of the 1970's when planned obsolescence began
> the decline of the American automaking industry.We're being held
> hostage to an enormously greedy industry which audaciously tells us
> that they have only our best interests in mind.

I'm guessing that you don't know that the Federal Government is taxing CFC's
and HCFC's to the point that makes the HFC blends more competitive, and more
attractive to the maintenance end of it.

--
Zyp



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