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Winter condensation problem in HVAC duct system

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Winter condensation problem in HVAC duct system Randy \"Brick\" MacKenna 01-28-2008
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Posted by Randy \"Brick\" MacKenna on January 28, 2008, 10:42 am
Hi,
This year I'm using a whole-house humidifier on the 2nd floor of
our 2-story home. Yesterday I found that there was quite a bit of
condensation forming both inside the attic (insulated) ductwork, and
on the surface of the ductwork between the duct itself and the
insulating layer. I could squeeze the insulation and feel that it was
full of water in a couple of spots. I cut out that insulation, and
installed fresh insulation and re-taped everything.

I've got separate ceiling mounted sends/returns in each room. I
plan on covering each with a vapor barrier (7-mil plastic and either
tape or magnet strips). Questions:

1. Will the vapor barrier on each send/return do the trick? That
is, is this solution good enough to fix the problem?

2. How worried should I be about the remaining damp insulation or
the inside of the ducts still being wet? We have another 2 months of
winter here, so the system will not be drying out on it's own anytime
soon. Do you think it's okay to just wait until summer when the attic
will get up to over 110 (F), and it will dry out on its own? Or
should I do something sooner? I don't want to start a mold experiment
up there.

3. If I need to proactively dry the system out now, what is the best
way to do that? I am thinking that I could turn off the whole-house
humidifier for a couple of days to get the air inside the house to
equalize in humidity to the outside (dry) air -- then just run the
HVAC air handler fan for 24 hours to pull inside air through the duct
system, hopefully drying it out (?)

Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated....thanks....

-Randy

Posted by Bobb on January 28, 2008, 12:44 pm
You have some serious problems that need immediate attention. You've already
started a "mold experiment". Don't cover any supply or return vents. That
will just compound the problem by keeping moisture in the ducts. The mold is
already starting to grow. If you wait until summer, the mold will grow
faster.



You don't say what kind of system it is. Your humidifier should only run
when the blower is on. If it doesn't, get the idiot back who installed it.



You need to dry things out quickly and completely. Turn off the humidifier
for the rest of the winter. Turn the thermostat fan switch to on and leave
it there 24/7 for the rest of the winter. Monitor the moisture coming out
the supply registers. Do this before your family develops serious health
problems.



Read this:

http://www.energystarhomesamerica.com/mold.html



> Hi,
> This year I'm using a whole-house humidifier on the 2nd floor of
> our 2-story home. Yesterday I found that there was quite a bit of
> condensation forming both inside the attic (insulated) ductwork, and
> on the surface of the ductwork between the duct itself and the
> insulating layer. I could squeeze the insulation and feel that it was
> full of water in a couple of spots. I cut out that insulation, and
> installed fresh insulation and re-taped everything.
>
> I've got separate ceiling mounted sends/returns in each room. I
> plan on covering each with a vapor barrier (7-mil plastic and either
> tape or magnet strips). Questions:
>
> 1. Will the vapor barrier on each send/return do the trick? That
> is, is this solution good enough to fix the problem?
>
> 2. How worried should I be about the remaining damp insulation or
> the inside of the ducts still being wet? We have another 2 months of
> winter here, so the system will not be drying out on it's own anytime
> soon. Do you think it's okay to just wait until summer when the attic
> will get up to over 110 (F), and it will dry out on its own? Or
> should I do something sooner? I don't want to start a mold experiment
> up there.
>
> 3. If I need to proactively dry the system out now, what is the best
> way to do that? I am thinking that I could turn off the whole-house
> humidifier for a couple of days to get the air inside the house to
> equalize in humidity to the outside (dry) air -- then just run the
> HVAC air handler fan for 24 hours to pull inside air through the duct
> system, hopefully drying it out (?)
>
> Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated....thanks....
>
> -Randy



Posted by Randy \"Brick\" MacKenna on January 28, 2008, 12:59 pm
> You have some serious problems that need immediate attention. You've already
> started a "mold experiment". Don't cover any supply or return vents. That
> will just compound the problem by keeping moisture in the ducts. The mold is
> already starting to grow. If you wait until summer, the mold will grow
> faster.
>
> You don't say what kind of system it is. Your humidifier should only run
> when the blower is on. If it doesn't, get the idiot back who installed it.
>
> You need to dry things out quickly and completely. Turn off the humidifier
> for the rest of the winter. Turn the thermostat fan switch to on and leave
> it there 24/7 for the rest of the winter. Monitor the moisture coming out
> the supply registers. Do this before your family develops serious health
> problems.
>
> Read this:
>
> http://www.energystarhomesamerica.com/mold.html
>
>
> > Hi,
> > This year I'm using a whole-house humidifier on the 2nd floor of
> > our 2-story home. Yesterday I found that there was quite a bit of
> > condensation forming both inside the attic (insulated) ductwork, and
> > on the surface of the ductwork between the duct itself and the
> > insulating layer. I could squeeze the insulation and feel that it was
> > full of water in a couple of spots. I cut out that insulation, and
> > installed fresh insulation and re-taped everything.
>
> > I've got separate ceiling mounted sends/returns in each room. I
> > plan on covering each with a vapor barrier (7-mil plastic and either
> > tape or magnet strips). Questions:
>
> > 1. Will the vapor barrier on each send/return do the trick? That
> > is, is this solution good enough to fix the problem?
>
> > 2. How worried should I be about the remaining damp insulation or
> > the inside of the ducts still being wet? We have another 2 months of
> > winter here, so the system will not be drying out on it's own anytime
> > soon. Do you think it's okay to just wait until summer when the attic
> > will get up to over 110 (F), and it will dry out on its own? Or
> > should I do something sooner? I don't want to start a mold experiment
> > up there.
>
> > 3. If I need to proactively dry the system out now, what is the best
> > way to do that? I am thinking that I could turn off the whole-house
> > humidifier for a couple of days to get the air inside the house to
> > equalize in humidity to the outside (dry) air -- then just run the
> > HVAC air handler fan for 24 hours to pull inside air through the duct
> > system, hopefully drying it out (?)
>
> > Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated....thanks....
>
> > -Randy

OK, thanks for the response. The humidifier is a portable unit that
sits on the floor upstairs -- it's not integrated into the system
(actually, I should not have said "HVAC" -- it is really just an "AC"
system).

No way I can leave the air handler fan on for the entire rest of the
winter. Also, the humidity level in the house during winter drops as
low as 20%, at which point we run into respiratory issues with a
couple of family members.

So, I have to figure out how to dry this system out and have humidity
control. You don't think sealing off the vents, assuming I can get
the system dried out, will be enough?

-Randy

Posted by Bobb on January 28, 2008, 1:20 pm
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. You have a SERIOUS PROBLEM. You are risking the
health of your entire family. If you think respiratory problems from dry air
are bad, wait until someone develops an allergic reaction to mold. You can't
afford NOT to leave that fan on 24/7, at least until all the attic ducts are
COMPLETELY dry, and monitored for at least a week.

You need to get a contractor to properly install a good quality whole house
humidifier in your first floor system.

Do NOT seal off the vents, and DO leave the fan ON. You need to do some
serious reading about mold. It is absolutely DANGEROUS. Don't be stubborn or
stupid or cheap. Don't play games with your family's health. If you already
read everything on that other link, and STILL are not convinced, read this:

http://www.epa.gov/mold/

Did I mention this is SERIOUS.



>> You have some serious problems that need immediate attention. You've
>> already
>> started a "mold experiment". Don't cover any supply or return vents. That
>> will just compound the problem by keeping moisture in the ducts. The mold
>> is
>> already starting to grow. If you wait until summer, the mold will grow
>> faster.
>>
>> You don't say what kind of system it is. Your humidifier should only run
>> when the blower is on. If it doesn't, get the idiot back who installed
>> it.
>>
>> You need to dry things out quickly and completely. Turn off the
>> humidifier
>> for the rest of the winter. Turn the thermostat fan switch to on and
>> leave
>> it there 24/7 for the rest of the winter. Monitor the moisture coming out
>> the supply registers. Do this before your family develops serious health
>> problems.
>>
>> Read this:
>>
>> http://www.energystarhomesamerica.com/mold.html
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi,
>> > This year I'm using a whole-house humidifier on the 2nd floor of
>> > our 2-story home. Yesterday I found that there was quite a bit of
>> > condensation forming both inside the attic (insulated) ductwork, and
>> > on the surface of the ductwork between the duct itself and the
>> > insulating layer. I could squeeze the insulation and feel that it was
>> > full of water in a couple of spots. I cut out that insulation, and
>> > installed fresh insulation and re-taped everything.
>>
>> > I've got separate ceiling mounted sends/returns in each room. I
>> > plan on covering each with a vapor barrier (7-mil plastic and either
>> > tape or magnet strips). Questions:
>>
>> > 1. Will the vapor barrier on each send/return do the trick? That
>> > is, is this solution good enough to fix the problem?
>>
>> > 2. How worried should I be about the remaining damp insulation or
>> > the inside of the ducts still being wet? We have another 2 months of
>> > winter here, so the system will not be drying out on it's own anytime
>> > soon. Do you think it's okay to just wait until summer when the attic
>> > will get up to over 110 (F), and it will dry out on its own? Or
>> > should I do something sooner? I don't want to start a mold experiment
>> > up there.
>>
>> > 3. If I need to proactively dry the system out now, what is the best
>> > way to do that? I am thinking that I could turn off the whole-house
>> > humidifier for a couple of days to get the air inside the house to
>> > equalize in humidity to the outside (dry) air -- then just run the
>> > HVAC air handler fan for 24 hours to pull inside air through the duct
>> > system, hopefully drying it out (?)
>>
>> > Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated....thanks....
>>
>> > -Randy
>
> OK, thanks for the response. The humidifier is a portable unit that
> sits on the floor upstairs -- it's not integrated into the system
> (actually, I should not have said "HVAC" -- it is really just an "AC"
> system).
>
> No way I can leave the air handler fan on for the entire rest of the
> winter. Also, the humidity level in the house during winter drops as
> low as 20%, at which point we run into respiratory issues with a
> couple of family members.
>
> So, I have to figure out how to dry this system out and have humidity
> control. You don't think sealing off the vents, assuming I can get
> the system dried out, will be enough?
>
> -Randy



Posted by Randy \"Brick\" MacKenna on January 28, 2008, 2:45 pm
> Maybe I wasn't clear enough. You have a SERIOUS PROBLEM. You are risking the
> health of your entire family. If you think respiratory problems from dry air
> are bad, wait until someone develops an allergic reaction to mold. You can't
> afford NOT to leave that fan on 24/7, at least until all the attic ducts are
> COMPLETELY dry, and monitored for at least a week.
>
> You need to get a contractor to properly install a good quality whole house
> humidifier in your first floor system.
>
> Do NOT seal off the vents, and DO leave the fan ON. You need to do some
> serious reading about mold. It is absolutely DANGEROUS. Don't be stubborn or
> stupid or cheap. Don't play games with your family's health. If you already
> read everything on that other link, and STILL are not convinced, read this:
>
> http://www.epa.gov/mold/
>
> Did I mention this is SERIOUS.
>
>
> >> You have some serious problems that need immediate attention. You've
> >> already
> >> started a "mold experiment". Don't cover any supply or return vents. That
> >> will just compound the problem by keeping moisture in the ducts. The mold
> >> is
> >> already starting to grow. If you wait until summer, the mold will grow
> >> faster.
>
> >> You don't say what kind of system it is. Your humidifier should only run
> >> when the blower is on. If it doesn't, get the idiot back who installed
> >> it.
>
> >> You need to dry things out quickly and completely. Turn off the
> >> humidifier
> >> for the rest of the winter. Turn the thermostat fan switch to on and
> >> leave
> >> it there 24/7 for the rest of the winter. Monitor the moisture coming out
> >> the supply registers. Do this before your family develops serious health
> >> problems.
>
> >> Read this:
>
> >>http://www.energystarhomesamerica.com/mold.html
>
> >>
>
> >> > Hi,
> >> > This year I'm using a whole-house humidifier on the 2nd floor of
> >> > our 2-story home. Yesterday I found that there was quite a bit of
> >> > condensation forming both inside the attic (insulated) ductwork, and
> >> > on the surface of the ductwork between the duct itself and the
> >> > insulating layer. I could squeeze the insulation and feel that it was
> >> > full of water in a couple of spots. I cut out that insulation, and
> >> > installed fresh insulation and re-taped everything.
>
> >> > I've got separate ceiling mounted sends/returns in each room. I
> >> > plan on covering each with a vapor barrier (7-mil plastic and either
> >> > tape or magnet strips). Questions:
>
> >> > 1. Will the vapor barrier on each send/return do the trick? That
> >> > is, is this solution good enough to fix the problem?
>
> >> > 2. How worried should I be about the remaining damp insulation or
> >> > the inside of the ducts still being wet? We have another 2 months of
> >> > winter here, so the system will not be drying out on it's own anytime
> >> > soon. Do you think it's okay to just wait until summer when the attic
> >> > will get up to over 110 (F), and it will dry out on its own? Or
> >> > should I do something sooner? I don't want to start a mold experiment
> >> > up there.
>
> >> > 3. If I need to proactively dry the system out now, what is the best
> >> > way to do that? I am thinking that I could turn off the whole-house
> >> > humidifier for a couple of days to get the air inside the house to
> >> > equalize in humidity to the outside (dry) air -- then just run the
> >> > HVAC air handler fan for 24 hours to pull inside air through the duct
> >> > system, hopefully drying it out (?)
>
> >> > Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated....thanks....
>
> >> > -Randy
>
> > OK, thanks for the response. The humidifier is a portable unit that
> > sits on the floor upstairs -- it's not integrated into the system
> > (actually, I should not have said "HVAC" -- it is really just an "AC"
> > system).
>
> > No way I can leave the air handler fan on for the entire rest of the
> > winter. Also, the humidity level in the house during winter drops as
> > low as 20%, at which point we run into respiratory issues with a
> > couple of family members.
>
> > So, I have to figure out how to dry this system out and have humidity
> > control. You don't think sealing off the vents, assuming I can get
> > the system dried out, will be enough?
>
> > -Randy

Gotcha, thanks. I will make sure the system is absolutely dried out.

Now, let's dial the clock back to before I turned on the freestanding
whole-house humidifier. Assuming my ductwork was bone dry at that
point in time, if I put a good vapor barrier over each of the send/
return ducts in each of the rooms -- would that have been good enough
to keep moisture out of the system?

-Randy

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